My recurrent chemical pregnancy story

We started trying to get pregnant with our first child in summer of 2007.  After trying for about 5 months I found out I was pregnant.  I had a very light line at around 10DPO (days past ovulation.)  I called the doc and made an appointment for 8 weeks.  I called my younger sister and told her I was pregnant.  She told me that she was pregnant too!!  I was so excited, I couldn’t believe we were finally going to be parents and that I was going to be pregnant with my sister, we were due within days of each other.  My husband and I were completely ecstatic.

However, a few days after I got the positive test, I started having some light brown spotting.  Alarmed, I called the doctor and they told me to come in and drew my blood to check my beta levels.  2 days later, I got the first result back – 72.  I went that morning for another draw and didn’t get the results back until Monday.  We went and saw my husband’s father and stepmom that weekend, and told them we were expecting.  But in the pit of my stomach I was concerned something was wrong.  Monday evening, my doctor called me and said my HCG levels had gone up to 90.  In a healthy pregnancy, they expect the HCG levels to double every 48-72 hours.  Mine didn’t even come close.  She said I was going to lose this pregnancy.

There really aren’t words to describe how I felt in that moment.  I didn’t really believe it.  I hadn’t even had a chance to get used to the fact that I was pregnant…and I was being told that it was already over.  I felt like I was losing a tiny piece of my soul.  I couldn’t stop crying for days.  The miscarriage itself physically wasn’t difficult, kind of like a heavy period, but it was so hard to know that I was losing my baby.

The doctor advised us to wait until after I had my next period to try again.  Well, we didn’t try, but we didn’t exactly avoid either, and I ended up getting pregnant again.  This pregnancy felt completely different from the start.  It felt STRONG.  I had very strong symptoms shortly after ovulation, so strong that when I went in to have my progesterone checked at 7DPO, I asked for an HCG test as well.  After all, I threw up in the shower that morning and that’s just not normal!!  Sure enough, I got those results back and my first beta, at 7DPO, was 79.  2 days later it was 250, so it more than tripled.  This pregnancy was a strong one and I went on to have a healthy baby boy in July 2008, E, who is the light of my life and the source of my hope.

I wish my story ended there, but it doesn’t.  When my son was a little over a year old, we decided to start trying again for a second child.  I had a Mirena IUD put in 8 weeks post partum and I had that removed in early November 2009.  The doctor said we could start trying to get pregnant right away, so we did.  We went on a vacation to Curacao for our 5 year anniversary, which coincidentally was right around ovulation time.  The last day of our vacation I felt very nauseous and threw up.  This was very similar to my pregnancy with E, so I excitedly told my husband.  A week later, a pregnancy test confirmed my suspicions, I was pregnant again…first try!  I was excited, but I couldn’t really believe it had happened so fast.  I went in to get my HCG levels drawn and my first number was 112, which seemed ok, and my progesterone levels were normal.  However my second number came back and it had dropped to 76.  I was losing another one.  I was very sad, but mostly just shocked.  I hadn’t really expected to get pregnant so fast and it was gone before I even had a chance to get used to the idea.

My doctor said we could try again whenever we were ready, and given that I had gotten pregnant with my son immediately after my first loss, we decided there was no reason to wait.  So we didn’t.  And, lo and behold, immediately I became pregnant again.  This one felt good to me…it seemed that maybe this was how my body worked, I had a “practice round” and then the real thing.  I went in the morning I got a positive test.  I knew the HCG number would be low because I had had a negative test the day before, and it was.  My first HCG beta was 14 and my progesterone levels were normal, which made me nervous, but I was optimistic.  My second number was 38!!  It more than doubled and I started to breathe easy.  I asked the doctor if I should come in for a 3rd draw and he said only if I wanted to.  I decided to go in for the 3rd draw just for peace of mind.  When the doctor called back and said my number had dropped again, down to 7, I couldn’t believe it.  3 times…..what in the world?  This 3rd loss really devastated me.  I just kind of thought that 2 was enough, that this one would work out.  And it didn’t.  I was losing another one.  I started to think, for the first time, that maybe there was something wrong with me.  Maybe this was more than just “bad luck.”  I scheduled an appointment with my doctor and he ran the Recurrent Loss bloodwork panel on me.  He agreed to look at my uterine lining since I had recently had my IUD removed.  I decided to get my body into tip-top primo shape for the next pregnancy.  I started acupuncture, I stopped drinking completely, started working out daily, took my vitamins, ate healthy foods, etc.  I wanted to make sure that my body was READY for the next pregnancy so that it could hang on.

My recurrent pregnancy loss bloodwork panel did not show that there were any issues.  I did not have any genetic, blood clotting, thyroid or hormonal issues based on the tests that were run.  However, my doctor sent to have my uterine lining checked and that showed that there was a problem.  My lining, at 7DPO (or cycle day 21), measured 3mm the cycle after the 3rd chemical pregnancy.  A healthy lining typically measures 10-15mm, so this was clearly an issue.  With this information he agreed to start me on some estrogen the days leading up to ovulation to thicken my lining.  I also voluntarily began taking Metformin, typically a treatment for PCOS, but it also helps your body create extra progesterone which can also thicken the lining.  This was on the suggestion of my older sister who had gone through infertility issues in the past.  I also started taking progesterone supplementation at 3DPO.

At the beginning of my next cycle I went to see an RE (Reproductive Endocrinologist) because they have access to more testing and more experience with helping people get pregnant.  I went on day 10 of my cycle, and when she checked my lining it was 8mm, which was adequate to support a pregnancy and I still had several days of estrogen left to take.  The RE said that we could try if we wanted to.  So we did.  And, we got pregnant again.  This time I was in a near panic from the start.  I had my typical symptoms, throwing up around 5DPO, lots of nausea.  A week later I got the positive pregnancy test and the next day I went in to get my HCG levels drawn.  My first number came back – 54, progesterone normal.  I was happy with this number, it seemed to be a strong first number.  The next draw came back – 72.  Doubling time: 76 hours.  You will remember that it should be doubling within 48-72 hours.  At this point I knew it wasn’t going to work.  I just knew it.  My third draw came back – 90.  Not even close to doubling.  It was over again.  3 losses in 4 months.  And I had done everything right: ate well, no drinking, took all the meds, exercised (but not too much), did regular acupuncture, I did it all….and I still lost it.  At this point I was just PISSED and confused and angry.  Angry at my body for letting me down.  Angry at my mind and heart for hoping.  And I was terrified.  I mean, it seemed like there really WAS something wrong with me, but what??  And how can I fix it? Is it fixable? How many times do I have to go through this?

And so here is where this blog begins – after my fourth loss as we try to figure out where to go from here.  My husband and I have gone on to do more diagnostic testing to determine what might be going on.  And I have started researching many other options that have not yet been offered to my by the medical professionals who are currently treating me.  I have realized that recurrent chemical pregnancies are kind of rare, and it seems that the conventional wisdom of testing for recurrent miscarriages does not necessarily cover all the possible causes for recurrent chemical pregnancies.  I feel like I’m being lumped into a category of either generally “infertile” (which I’m clearly not, I get pregnant every time I try) or recurrent later miscarriage (and by later, I mean after 6 weeks), when whatever causes these chemical pregnancies is very different from what causes losses at 6 weeks and beyond.

I have realized that I need to take this into my own hands.  I need to research on my own and then talk to the doctors about what I have found.  And if they aren’t willing to help me then I will find someone who will.  Thankfully, my father is an OB-GYN and in the past week I started discussing a lot of this with him and he has started to help me look through different medical journals to investigate other options.  So that’s where we are today.  All updates going forward will be found on the main part of this blog.  I hope that you find some interesting information here as well.

Click HERE to read this blog from the beginning.

In memory of the babies I lost….

259 thoughts on “My recurrent chemical pregnancy story

  1. Pisicu says:

    Thank you for posting all this information… i’m going through the same thing and i’m just having my 4th chemical pregnancy… it was very inspiring reading upon all the analisys that you have done and I must admit that my doctor and I have discussed the posibility of trying your protocol in order to get pregnant…. so in march 2011 I’m going to try my luck!

    Again thank you very much in Helping me!
    P.S. Isn’t internet amaizing… you just helped a person half way around the globe from you (I’m from Europe)

    • rowanthefrog says:

      replied via email

      • sugar says:

        I belive most pregnancies end in early miscarriage, all technology that we have today just makes us aware of what is really going on….women in times past may have actually been getting pregnant when they thought they just weren’t getting pregnant. I think alot of the stress caused by finding out too early can be causing too many problems…when we stop worrying and trying to get pregnant, thats when it happened for me after lots of miscarriages! I had 3 more children with NO miscarriages,, after I stopped obsessing, testing and going to the doctor. Hope this helps!

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Sugar,

        Thanks for your comments. I agree that we are now aware of pregnancies that we might not have been aware of before, due to early testing. However, I don’t believe that just because we didn’t know before, means that something isn’t wrong now. The studies that have been done relating stress to miscarriage show that women experience a higher incidence of miscarriage in times of extreme stress – war, famine, domestic abuse, things of that nature. While I was certainly incredibly anxious every time I discovered I was pregnant, I don’t think its fair to blame that anxiety for my miscarriages. In fact, going to the doctor and taking a light medicinal protocol has resulted in 2 successful pregnancies for me now. I don’t believe there is one cause for recurrent early miscarriages. I think its a careful interplay between a lot of factors and is different for each woman.

        A

    • Kaipie says:

      On September 28th I had a normal period flow. I was not trying to get pregnant but three days ago I saw some light bleeding which looked mostly brown. Right away I could tell that this was not my period and based on previously acquired knowledge concluded that it was implantation bleeding. I told may hubby and he was really excited so I became even more excited. I mean we were not planning but the thought of having our own ‘little bundle of joy’ made us so happy. After two days of on and off spotting I started getting a heavier flow. I knew this was not my normal period. I could just feel it. I decided to do some research of my own and was exposed to a post on chemical pregnancies. I can tell that this is what is happening because this bleeding started three days before my next expected period (a 30 day cycle). Right now am still hemorrhaging and I don’t know how to get over the sadness I feel. My hubby does not understand what is happening he probably just thinks that its an abnormal period and I don’t have the heart to tell him that we may have lost a baby. Now I wish I didn’t do all this reading because i can’t stop crying and Kymi (my hubby) thinks that the crying is as a result of mood swings, which I never have! Can someone please advise me? How do I get over this feeling of loss?

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Kaipie,

        I’m so sorry for what you are going through. It can all be very confusing. Did you take a pregnancy test and get a positive result before you started bleeding? This is the only way to confirm it was a chemical pregnancy completely. However I do understand the feelings of loss that accompany a chemical pregnancy. I can only speak for myself, but time helped some with my grieving but ultimately it was getting pregnant successfully that helped me get over my feelings of loss. I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms. Keep us posted.

        A

  2. Lilygrace says:

    Just a couple of questions—-I will give you the long and short of it…..I am currently going through my 6th miscarriage and they were all biochemical. Never can get passed week 5-6—–my beta’s don’t double.
    I have a DD from my DH in 2003—she is 7 and we started to try again (used condoms) in Feb 2010—-so 6 in a year. I am 39 and have had every test in the world and everything is fine. Except for getting this baby to stick.

    My question is: With your lining so thin………did you have light periods? Because I have never thought that was my issue——–and now I am wondering. I have very bad clotty periods—–only for 5 days——-never in between—-and ovulate on my own. But still heavy.

    Anything else you think I need? I am on a vitamin and herb regiman as well. Thank you so much

    • Jessica says:

      I have close to the same stats as you 37 yrs old, 4 chemical miscarriages after having my 3rd IUD removed surgically over the last year, periods are lighter than they were before (used to be 8 miserable days now 5 clotty heavy days), bloodwork shows normal although entering premenopause, ovulation right on time by itself every month, very healthy lifestyle, 2 children conceived first try no problems when I was 27 and 31yrs old and just had an HSG that showed my uterus looks perfect and tubes are open…so what’s going on? I still get pregnant easily but only am able to keep it for about 2 days (preg test shows positive on day 22 and 23 then negative until my period on day 27) Have you found anything else out since you posted this last year? I see that some people recommend taking baby aspirin to keep blood clots from forming in the umbilical cord and it helps some but have you tried that? Thanks for any help ou can offer!

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Jessica,

        I’m so sorry for your losses. I finally got successfully pregnant with my second child using this protocol. I recently had another miscarriage but around 7.5 weeks as we were trying for our third. I was not on those meds though. When we try again we will follow the same protocol. If you have any questions, please let me know.

        A

      • Jenna says:

        Hi Jessica,
        I read a post of yours on the web, and I happen to be a very similar situation to yours, 2 kids (first try) Mirena perforated, removed, replaced, 4 years later 2 chemicals and 1 missed. Did you find an answer to your issue? Any help is appreciated.
        Thanks
        Jenna

      • Jessica says:

        As a follow up, don’t know why it worked but I got pregnant the very first try after the HSG I had mentioned above and am now 21 weeks prego with my third baby and all is healthy and good so far! :-)

  3. rowanthefrog says:

    Emailed you!

  4. babyxdx says:

    hey ladies i have had the same problem 3 chemicals in a row. i have been refferred to the hospital for test etc in march but i was hoping not to go down that road. i got a positive OPK test on saturday so im hoping that i will have conceived and it stiks before i have to attend this appointment.
    me and my partner are desperate for a baby…and i dont know how much more of this i can take. i just want reassuring that it will happen. please keep me posted on whats happening to you all. lots of baby dust xxx

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m sorry to hear that you are going through this too. I hope you find some valuable information here. Let me know if you have any questions and best of luck to you.

      • maha says:

        i wanna know the protocol that you followed to have your second child..as i have passed lately three chemical pregnancies and i have no babies.
        p.s the link you published above doesn’t download to me.thank you in advance.

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Hi Maha,

        The protocol that I have followed successfully twice now (my second son was born in 2011 and I’m currently 37 weeks pregnant with my third son) is detailed here.

        5mg of Letrozole (Femara) on days 5-9 of the cycle. (To produce a stronger ovulation.)
        Trigger shot of 5000mu of Pregnyl (HCG) when I got a positive OPK (to trigger ovulation)
        Booster short of 5000mu of Pregnyl 7 days after the trigger shot (to provide early hormonal support.)
        To that I personally added taking 4mg of Estradiol, vaginally from day 9-13 to build my lining.

        If you have any questions, please let me know.

        A

  5. christieeanne says:

    I am going through my 2nd chemical in 2months.
    I ovulated late in January and conception was around the 21st Jamuary, I tested on the 30th January at 9dpo and got a faint positive. Tested again at 12dpo and got a strong positive the next day I had brown dishcharge and that night fresh blood and I passed the embryo at about 2am. Normal period from then on til the next Thursday when it finished. I ovulated on the 16th Feburary and on the 1st March I got a positive in-between, strong and faint ( I compared with the previous months tests) and then today I started bleeding after a day of light pink and brown spotting.
    This is really upsetting and I feel as if there is something wrong with me. All my close friends are pregnant or just had babies and I feel like a failure!

    So ladies if you all find out what is wrong please let me know. Both of these pregnancies are natural and January was the first time we tried.

    I hope we all have sticky pregnancies soon!!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m sorry to hear that you are going through this too. I hope you find some valuable information here. Let me know if you have any questions and best of luck to you.

  6. Rachael says:

    I’m glad I found ur blog. I had a blighted ovum last nov at 9 weeks knit was degassing because we kept going in for scans but could never detect a baby even though my hcg levels were high n then we started trying again a month later n this time it was a chemical in early February. When I went in for the scan at 4 weeks, my doc said he spotted blood in the scan which prob might I was going to get my period soon. True enough it came 10 days later even though I was on progesterone n hoping that he might have been wrong.
    I felt like I was a walking statistic..I couldn’t believe it but we decided to start trying again because my levels dropped to 0 pretty quickly.

    So now here we are..I got my 3rd positive (in the last 5 months) this morning. At 11dpo, I know anything can happen n I cld possibly still get my period in a couple of days. I’m freaking out because I’m afraid of a recurring chemical n
    I don’t want to make a doc’s appt yet because I don’t want to go in too early n go thru all tt heartbreak again. So now I’m in limbo..alittle numb..scared to be happy n jus plain out scared. I’m praying so hard I don’t know what my next step should be.

    Sorry for ranting but I’m jus kinda confused now..

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Rachael,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you have been through. It is a very devastating, confusing and frustrating thing to go through, especially over and over. I hope that this pregnancy sticks and grows with you for the next 9 months. Keep me posted.
      A

  7. Littlebird says:

    Thanks for your blog. I am in almost the same situation. One happy healthy son (thank God!) followed by 5 chemicals in the last year or so. Longest I have gone is about 5 weeks and a bit. So far, all testing has come back normal except for ana titre of 1:40 (which the docs don’t consider an issue). I O regularly and get pregnant no problem. My ob/gyn suggested progesterone and baby aspirin for last one but no luck. Now they are just saying perhaps it’s just “bad eggs”-very disheartening to hear (we started trying again when I was 37, now I’m 38). I just feel like my body is somehow rejecting the babies like an immune thing…DH is ready to give up but I’m not…going to (another) specialist next week…

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry to hear about your losses. Its so devastating and difficult to go through, over and over and over. I would definitely recommend looking into the immunological factors. My issue turned out to be poor uterine lining (or that is the best answer I was able to find.) I’m now 36 weeks pregnant so something I did worked. Keep in touch and let me know if you have any questions, I’m happy to help.

      • Littlebird says:

        Congratulations!! That’s great-what protocol did you follow in the end? Nice to hear a good story

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Hey, the protocol is here: http://recurrentearlymiscarriage.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/august-update/

        What are your doctors telling you?

      • Littlebird says:

        My Oby/gyn thought it was a thin lining/low progesterone too so he put me on the prometrium for the last one but no luck. He did a uterine biopsy but it came back inconclusive so he just tried the prometrium anyways, just in case. Last doc I saw (at a fertility clinic) said it was probably just “bad eggs” but I am having a hard time believing that many times in a row would be bad. I do get a lot of cramping around implantation most times-the most I got was the pregnancy that lasted the longest- kind of makes me wonder? I have never heard of that extra shot you got-maybe it’s worth a try? I am going to the recurrent preg loss clinic next -finally got in there…I will ask them about this when I’m there…thanks again for your help

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Prometrium hasn’t helped me at all either. I was on it for 3 of my 4 losses. My issue was my uterine lining was very very thin, so I took Estradiol to plump it up, Femara to create a “stronger ovulation” and then the Pregnyl to provide some extra hormonal support early on….that is what gave me this pregnancy. Keep me posted on what the new doc says. I had to change doctors several times too to get one who would really listen and pay attention to my history. I hope your next doc brings you some answers. Good luck.

      • Littlebird says:

        Thanks for the info-wouldn’t it be great if this worked for me too?! I know RPL patients are always looking for an answer to their problem but I am still hopeful I can find a solution. I’m glad you found yours!! Will keep you updated…

    • Ice maiden says:

      I’m going through the exact same thing as you, we had our first after one chemical pregnancy at 35, not at 37 we ve had 3 chemicals, I haven’t done any further testing but it’s certainly disheartening

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Ice maiden,

        I’m so sorry for your losses, it’s so difficult. You might want to consider further testing at this point, but talk to your doctor and see what they recommend. I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms.

        Sincerely,

        A

  8. Littlebird says:

    Update-went to the new “specialist”-she was nice but basically said the only mc that counted as a “real” miscarriage was the one at around 6 weeks so she wouldn’t even consider me as an RPL patient and wouldn’t have done the full work up on me that the other docs have done. She basically said just try again without anything (hormones,etc..) but I’m freaking out cause I really think it will happen again and I think this will be our last try….I might go back to my original ob/gyn and see if he will give me something-not that I’m into trying out drugs, etc…I just feel like if it’s going to be our last try I want to do everything possible to succeed-very frustrating!!!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Wow. I would have been VERY angry if she told me what she told you. You need to see another doctor. The MOST IMPORTANT thing you can do for yourself, your sanity, your body and your next pregnancy is to find a doctor that will take this issue seriously. No matter what she says, this is a real miscarriage. Check out http://www.sirm.com. See if there is a location near you. If not, call the one closest to you and ask for a phone consult. They are experts on RPL, including recurrent CPs. I saw Dr. Corley in the NJ office and he was amazing. If you don’t want to consult with someone you can’t see in real life, try calling some other REs in your area and ask to speak with them by phone before you take the time for an appointment to find the right fit. Once you find the right doctor, then you can start working towards treatment. Good luck, I’m so sorry that the RE you saw was CLUELESS about recurrent CPs. She is wrong, for the record.

  9. Littlebird says:

    Yes, it was very frustrating to wait three months for that response. I have called back my own ob/gyn for an appt and will bring up your treatment with him, as well as a couple of other things I have heard about. He is fantastic, although not an expert in this area, which is why he referred me on. In the meantime, I might try what you suggest about a phone consult. I just can’t imagine going into this again without doing something…..thanks for the support

  10. Littlebird says:

    News, news, news…I just spoke to Dr Sher today (great DR by the way-thanks!) and was finally able to have someone take me seriously…anyways, he suspected my problem could be either DQ-hla or thin lining. I remembered that my sonohysterogram was done around 10 dpo and called the DR who did it to see if they knew how think the lining was-apparently it was only around .53 cm or 5mm (not that they even mentioned this to me!) I emailed DR Sher and he said to have another one done at 11 dpo to make sure. My reg OB/gyn is very supportive of talking to other experts but can’t prescribe the stuff you took so if this is the prob, I will ask if Dr Sher can or if he thinks it’s a good idea…now, I just have to talk my husband into the HLA testing (all our reg stuff is covered up here in Canada, so the price is a bit of a shock!) …you must be almost due now? Exciting!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      That IS news!! So you got to speak with Dr. Sher himself, huh? I knew his practice would take you seriously. Poor lining was my issue, as you know. Luckily, its a VERY easy (and cheap) thing to fix!!

      We did the DQ testing as well. We were not a match so that wasn’t our problem, but another friend of mine who had the same history as I did turned out to be a 50% match with her husband. She did the full intralipid treatments and is now about 25 weeks pregnant!

      I’m 39 weeks today and waiting for my miracle to arrive! Keep me posted. I’m so glad you found a doc who is taking you seriously, hopefully this will be the beginning of a solution for you.

      A

  11. Littlebird says:

    Update-just had my lining tested at day 14 -it’s only 6mm-have to say I have never been so happy to hear something “wrong”–hoping that’s the only prob-getting my HLQ tests and NK later this week and talking to DR Sher next week….thanks so much for your help!!!

    I hope you and your little guy are doing well!!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Wow! Sounds VERY familiar and I know your feeling on being HAPPY to have something wrong. I really hope that is the only problem because its such an easy fix, but keep me posted on your other test results. Sounds like you are one step closer to having a baby in your arms. Thinking about you.

      A

  12. Jessica says:

    I am so happy that I found your blog :) I am a mom to a 2 year who we conceived without issue on the first try. Like you, we started trying for number 2 when my son was 1 year old and quickly became pregnant…we lost that one at 4.5 weeks. I was upset but really thought it was just a fluke. We went on to losing 4 more pregnancies after that one all 4-6 weeks in 9 months. The last 3 losses were back to back :(

    I’ve been tested for I feel like everything and I do have MTHFR mutation but when I started treatment for it with the blood thinners I went on to lose 2 more pregnancies. I am starting to think it’s something else.

    I see my RE in a week for the first time (so far I’ve only been taken care of by my OB) and I will bring up the lining issue. I had an SIS done and they didn’t comment on my lining measurement, I’ll have to call tomorrow and ask about my result.

    I am soooo hoping that my lining is too thin and the same protocol you did helps me stay pregnant. I can’t handle a 6th loss at this point, my heart is in too many peices as it is. Thanks again :)

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry to hear of your losses and I’m glad you found my blog to be helpful. I completely understand where you are emotionally, I was there myself. I truly hope that your RE can help you find the cause and a good solution to help you stay pregnant. Please keep me posted on what your doc says and I’m happy to answer any questions you may have. Best of luck!

  13. Helen says:

    Hi Amy,

    First of all, I’d like to congratulate you and your husband for fighting and ensuring that Elliott gets to join your family. Your boys are beautiful! Secondly, I’d like to say how sorry I am that you had to go through all that hell. Reading your story left me frustrated and incredibly hopefull all at the same time. I have a 2 yr-old son (conceived him without any issues on the second try) and we decided to go for baby #2 earlier this year. After 3 months, a hpt finally showed a positive result and ofcourse due to my previous history of no issues, the thought of problems like this never crossed my mind. I scheduled an appt with the doctor in 2 weeks (not wanting to go in too early, give the embryo enough time to actually show up on the sono), but unfortunately to my shock I started spotting exactly a week after my positive pregnancy test. Despite knowing that spotting and even bleeding is normal in some pregnancies, in my gut, I immediately knew something was wrong. The next day we went to the doctor (a new doctor I was trying since I had recently moved) and he did a sono which showed a “thick lining” but no sac inside. He drew blood and in a few hours called to say I was miscarrying because the levels were very low. A week later, did another blood test which showed levels dropped to zero basically and sono showed uterus is back to normal. He explained that most of these “chemical pregnancies” are due to chromosomal issues of the embyo, that these are very common and that there is no reason to worry or run any tests. I completely bought this, being that it was my first time. I had also been under stress and exhaustion the weekend before miscarrying so secretly I also thought that perhaps I caused this to happen by wearing myself out. The doctor told us to wait a month, but said there really is no good reason for that. Thinking that this was a one time incident, we deciced to not wait and just try again (we were already upset that it’s taking us “so long” to become preganant). In a few weeks, I got another positive pregnancy test (very faint line) but tested a week later and got a much stronger line so I became very hopeful and started to really believe that what had happened the month before was just a terrible luck of the draw. I went to get a blood test and was told that it is indeed a very early new preganancy – HCG level was only 50 (progesterone was at 16, which I was told was fairly normal for such an early pregnancy). I was due to come back in a week. Unfortunately, 3 days later I started bleeding. I became really hysterical at the realization that this was happening again. I decided to go back to my old OB/GYN (the one who delivered my son since I figured he has my history and maybe could shine some light). He said he is convinced that this time was not a miscarriage but remnants of the first miscarriage. I’m not a doctor, but I find this hard to believe considering the fact that my levels totally dropped after the first miscarriage and the other doctor told me that this was a “new pregnancy”. So my old doctor said that I need to not think about this and treat it as a one time thing and that he is sure there is nothing wrong with me, especially since “I already have a child”. He asked me to come back after my next period to run tests to check if I have any issues that may cause miscarriages. So this is where I am now. I’m very lost and confused. I read through your blog 10 times and made notes for myself with all the possible issues and treatment options. I can’t thank you enough for putting all this information here and for sharing your story. I hope I will have a happy ending, but looks like I’m just at the beginning of a very long process. I don’t want to try a new OB/GYN because I already tried a few (prior to the miscarriages) and wound up going back to my old one. Plus, I’m beginning to think OB/GYN’s in general don’t recognize this as an issue. I made an appt to a doctor at SIRM (thank you so so much for your recommendation) – hopefully they will be willing to run tests for me and get this process started (I do have to wait for over a month for an appt though). I don’t want to lose any more time, moreover, I do not want to go through any more miscarriages. Unfortunately, though, I think I will have to have another one in order for anyone to think I’m qualified for further evaluation. Thank you again for all that you’ve done and for your time in reading my story. I do have a few questions for you – my doctor during the first miscarriage commented that my lining was very thick, which makes me feel like maybe that is not an issue? Was it clear from your sonograms during miscarriages (if you had any sonos) that the lining was very thin? Also, someone already asked, but from your experience are light periods a symptom of thin lining? Also, to your comment regarding implantation time (that later implantation may lead to miscarriage more so than earlier) – can this be tested somehow and if so, what can be done to force an earlier implantation? Thank you again and best of luck to you and your family.

  14. Helen says:

    Hi Amy,

    First of all, I’d like to congratulate you and your husband for fighting and ensuring that Elliott gets to join your family. Your boys are beautiful! Secondly, I’d like to say how sorry I am that you had to go through all that hell. Reading your story left me frustrated and incredibly hopefull all at the same time. I have a 2 yr-old son (conceived him without any issues on the second try) and we decided to go for baby #2 earlier this year. After 3 months, a HPT finally showed a positive result and ofcourse due to my previous history of no issues, the thought of problems like this never crossed my mind. I scheduled an appt with the doctor in 2 weeks (not wanting to go in too early, give the embryo enough time to actually show up on the sono), but unfortunately to my shock I started spotting exactly a week after my positive pregnancy test. Despite knowing that spotting and even bleeding is normal in some pregnancies, in my gut, I immediately knew something was wrong. The next day we went to the doctor (a new doctor I was trying since I had recently moved) and he did a sono which showed a “thick lining” but no sac inside. He drew blood and in a few hours called to say I was miscarrying because the levels were very low. A week later, did another blood test which showed levels dropped to zero basically and sono showed uterus is back to normal. He explained that most of these “chemical pregnancies” are due to chromosomal issues of the embyo, that these are very common and that there is no reason to worry or run any tests. I completely bought this, being that it was my first time. I had also been under stress and exhaustion the weekend before miscarrying so secretly I also thought that perhaps I caused this to happen by wearing myself out. The doctor told us to wait a month, but said there really is no good reason for that. Thinking that this was a one time incident, we deciced to not wait and just try again (we were already upset that it’s taking us “so long” to become preganant). In a few weeks, I got another positive pregnancy test (very faint line) but tested a week later and got a much stronger line so I became very hopeful and started to really believe that what had happened the month before was just a terrible luck of the draw. I went to get a blood test and was told that it is indeed a very early new preganancy – HCG level was only 50 (progesterone was at 16, which I was told was fairly normal for such an early pregnancy). I was due to come back in a week. Unfortunately, 3 days later I started bleeding. I became really hysterical at the realization that this was happening again. I decided to go back to my old OB/GYN (the one who delivered my son since I figured he has my history and maybe could shine some light). He said he is convinced that this time was not a miscarriage but remnants of the first miscarriage. I’m not a doctor, but I find this hard to believe considering the fact that my levels totally dropped after the first miscarriage and the other doctor told me that this was a “new pregnancy”. So my old doctor said that I need to not think about this and treat it as a one time thing and that he is sure there is nothing wrong with me, especially since “I already have a child”. He asked me to come back after my next period to run tests to check if I have any issues that may cause miscarriages. So this is where I am now. I’m very lost and confused. I read through your blog 10 times and made notes for myself with all the possible issues and treatment options. I can’t thank you enough for putting all this information here and for sharing your story. I hope I will have a happy ending, but looks like I’m just at the beginning of a very long process. I don’t want to try a new OB/GYN because I already tried a few (prior to the miscarriages) and wound up going back to my old one. Plus, I’m beginning to think OB/GYN’s in general don’t recognize this as an issue. I made an appt to a doctor at SIRM (thank you so so much for your recommendation) – hopefully they will be willing to run tests for me and get this process started (I do have to wait for over a month for an appt though). I don’t want to lose any more time, moreover, I do not want to go through any more miscarriages. Unfortunately, though, I think I will have to have another one in order for anyone to think I’m qualified for further evaluation. Thank you again for all that you’ve done and for your time in reading my story. I do have a few questions for you – my doctor during the first miscarriage commented that my lining was very thick, which makes me feel like maybe that is not an issue? Was it clear from your sonograms during miscarriages (if you had any sonos) whether lining was very thin? Also, someone already asked, but from your experience are light periods a symptom of thin lining? Also, to your comment regarding implantation time (that later implantation may lead to miscarriage more so than earlier) – can this be tested somehow and if so, what can be done to force an earlier implantation? Thank you again and best of luck to you and your family.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Helen,

      Thank you for coming to my blog. I’m glad that you are finding my information to be useful. As I went through that nightmare, I was shocked at how little info was out there and I vowed to make the search easier for others. I’m so sorry to hear about your losses. I know how devastating each one can be, and I hate that anyone else has to experience that pain, especially over and over.

      I disagree with your old doc, it was a new pregnancy and a 2nd m/c. I found that as I went through this experience, I often felt let down by my medical providers. I think that there is very little knowledge and acknowledgment of CPs as “real” m/c, because they are so common. That said, 1 or even 2 may be common, but after that I think that its an indicator that something is probably wrong. I think many docs just want to make you feel better, when really you want hard truths and solid answers. However, those truths and answers are not always easily found.

      As for your questions, please remember I’m not a doctor, but I will offer my opinions…. 1) I only had one sonogram during a m/c (my 1st one) and I don’t remember any mention of the thickness of my lining. I did have them check my lining multiple times during the time leading up to ovulation, and also, once, 7 days past ovulation and the lining was very thin during those times. I think that your lining being thick is a good thing and I would hope that would mean its not an issue for you. That said, its not a hard thing for them to check, so once you get under the care of an RE, I would request a lining check around day 9 of your cycle and also post ovulation. If you have a thickness above 8mm (preferably 10-15mm) then you should be fine, on that issue anyway.

      I have always had light periods, and they got lighter while I had my IUD in. The bleeding after 2 of my m/c was also VERY light, so I do think that that was an indicator for me of a thin lining.

      re: implantation time – there is nothing you can do to force an earlier implantation, that happens when it happens. However, I do think you can provide additional hormonal support in the event of later implantation. The medicinal protocol that I was on, that ultimately brought Elliott into my arms, was designed to provide early hormonal support. I detail that protocol here. Essentially the femara is supposed to provide a stronger ovulation (without Clomid crazy side effects) and the pregnyl trigger and especially the booster provide extra HCG in your system to give some extra support to an implanting embryo. Discuss this protocol with your RE. Every doc has different opinions, but it worked for me. Dr. Bruce Lessey, in Greenville, SC, designed this protocol and worked with me remotely to take it, so if SIRM is not meeting your needs, consider contacting Dr. Lessey.

  15. Helen says:

    Thank you for responding to me. What is the best way to contact Dr. L if I were to reach out to start working with him remotely (email or call office and explain my situation)? Would he then work with my on/gyn (if I need tests done, etc)?

  16. Kersten says:

    Thanks for sharing your story, I can’t wait to read through some more of your blog. So far I’ve had 3 losses. I had a live baby, 2 losses @ 5w 3d & 5w, and then another live baby, then I had another loss at 5w 3d, and am currently pregnant again. I’ve made it to 5w 4d without having any problems yet, so I’m hoping that I can actually make it past that 6 week mark, and so on. I’ve always thought it was weird that I had so many early pregnancy losses, but have still managed to have two children.

  17. Stephanie says:

    Hi Amy, I am so glad I found this blog! I’m currently having my 2nd chemical miscarriage. I have 3 beautiful boys from my first marriage. I’m remarried to an amazing man with no children of his own. We decided to start trying in July. I went of the pill and conceived right away. I lost that one in August, and even though was told to wait a cycle I didn’t. We conceived again right away and I’m losing it again. My question is could it be a temporary lining issue? Maybe because of the pill and miscarriage the lining was thinner? I’m going to request a lining check after my next cycle. It is so reassuring that you have had sucess!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Stephanie,

      I’m so sorry to hear what you have been going through. Its quite possible it could be a lining issue. I do think that at least my 2nd m/c after my first son was born was due to poor lining because of a previous m/c and thinning from the IUD. The best way to check would be to have your OBGYN or RE check your lining around day 9 of your cycle. A healthy lining will be between 8-15mm. You also may want to wait a few cycles for the hormones from BCP to leave your system and allow some time to rebuild your lining. I hope you find some success. Please keep me posted.

  18. Aussie says:

    Hi, thanks so much for your post. I have just had my nineth miscarriage. I have had a two miscarriages at 6 weeks, about 3 miscarriages at 12 weeks, one at 9 weeks, I had a still born baby at 23 weeks and in the last 2 months I’ve had two chemical pregnancies that haven’t progressed. Well I think that’s all my miscarriages, sometimes I lose count. I have done every test under the sun, only thing they have found is that I can’t absorb folate normally.

    I have even done “assessment cycles” at fertility centres ( I live in Australia) and sometimes I don’t think they (the experts) really understand miscarriages. My advice to other people going through miscarriages, do your own research and question you doctors, make them do tests, just to ease your mind.
    I now ask for regular blood tests and if I’m especially seeing a GP I tell them what to test me for!!

    I have had the lining of my uterus checked and they don’t seem to think it is a problem, but after reading this blog I am going to ask to get it checked again and suggest the protocol that you followed to see if that helps me.

    Thanks again for sharing your blog, as there isn’t much medical info about this on the internet.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I am so so sorry to hear about all that you have been through. I really hope that they can find the “magic formula” for you soon and you have a healthy pregnancy. Please keep me posted.

    • mariah says:

      hi aussie,
      i live in au like you. going though repeated chemical pregnancies, i still can’t figure it out, and agree with you fert spec don’t understand the misscariage. have you done remote protocols with somebody you would suggest?

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Hi Mariah,

        I’m sorry for what you are going through. I’m actually in the US so I don’t know any docs in Australia to recommend and I’m not quite familiar with how the system works over there. I detailed what worked for me (twice now) in this blog post. Perhaps its something you could print and bring to your OB or fertility specialist and see if they would be willing to let you try it? Have you had the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss bloodwork done?

        A

  19. Jessica says:

    I see that no one has posted on here in quite a while.. I hope that means good news for everyone. I ran across your blog while doing some “research” of my own. I busted into tears as soon as I started reading your stuff. I’ve been fine except for really early this morning, but I spent all night crying. I had a chemical pregnancy in late September. Back then, when I started bleeding, I knew something was wrong even though I had never been pregnant before. I googled bleeding in early pregnancy and I found out I was going through a chemical. I was so sad. My doctor was cold and uncaring (I never had an ob/gyn before) and while my boyfriend was trying his best, I really just went through the loss and emotions by myself. After going through that, I got another doctor who explained what I went through (even though I already knew from the stuff on the internet) and told me to keep trying, that many many people experience them. Well, I’m experiencing another one. As I write this, I’m losing yet another child. One I will never be able to hold. One that won’t ever be able to say momma or daddy. I’m completely devastated. I bought into the “it only happens once” theory and this is my second. I feel like I’ve let my boyfriend (well, fiance now) down. I keep telling him I’m sorry, even though deep down I know it’s nothing I did. I have a doctors appt on Monday, I’m hoping they can give me some answers instead of blowing it off like this is completely normal. I thought maybe this one would be okay – I was having brown spotting and then it went away. Then last night BAM – red heavy flow. I spent the whole week terrified of using the bathroom, but using it every hour atleast anyway just to see what was there. I thought I was fine.. I was ALMOST getting to the point where I was optimistic. I’m glad I didn’t get there.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Jessica,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you are going through. I can “hear” the pain in your post and its bringing me back. It sucks. It sucks all around and I’m so so sorry. I really hope your doc will run some tests and hopefully look for some answers for you. Keep me posted.

      A

  20. Linda P. says:

    I am sorry you are going through this, I have one child. Trying for another but have been pregnant eight times in two years. Two after eight weeks, one at five and five chemicals. I am told it is poor egg quality.

    L

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Linda,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you are going through. Have you seen a specialist/RE (reproductive endocrinologist)? Its so extremely devastating and frustrating. My story has a happy ending, please read http://recurrentearlymiscarriage.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/august-update/ to see what ultimately worked for me. It may be worth discussing with your doctor. Please keep me posted. I hope this nightmare ends for you soon.

      Amy

    • Littlebird says:

      Hi Linda

      Sorry to hear about all of your mc. It really is devastating.

      I posted my story here a while back and in the meantime have found out that my lining is thin but I finally did get one to stick and it turned out to be a blighted ovum/ trisomy 16 (most common chromosomal error)- so now I have had 7 mc in 2 1/2 yrs. I also have one child already and my doctors have told me with that number it’s possible but unlikely they were all chromosomal. All of my tests have been normal as well and my hormone levels on Day 3 are normal and don’t show signs of low ovarian reserve but my follicle count is a little on the low side. I am just wondering why we have different opinions from our doctors when it seems we have a similar story. Did you have tests to show this? I am now 39 and worried about trying again even though my docs say that it’s probably just a random error and my chances of another are the same as anyone else my age…they have offered me DHEA just to cover my bases but I am scared to take it as I don’t want to play with my hormones too much (have already taken progesterone for several of the pregnancies…)

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Littlebird,

        I’m glad you posted again but I’m so sorry to hear that you don’t have good news :( I also found it extremely frustrating that every doctor had a different answer (if they had one at all.) On one hand, its good that you made it past the chemical pregnancy stage, but I know that doesn’t make it any easier (and probably much harder) to then lose the pregnancy later on. Please keep me posted and big hugs to you.

        A

  21. jmassage says:

    could it be high FSH? I’m guessing you have had cd3 bloodwork done??

  22. Littlebird says:

    Hi rowan,
    Thanks for the comment. I think we might be done now-I still have hope for maybe one more try (don’t we always?!!) but my hubby is pretty much done and my self-imposed age limit for trying is 40 so not much time left if we do make another go of it. Will let you know if anything works out.

    I think the thin lining could have contributed to the problem but since this one stuck the doctor figured that wasn’t the problem. The only thing I did differently in this last preg was taking grape seed extract (also the progesterone subscribed) as I had seen on an RE’s website that he uses that for women with thin lining and he claims it helps to thicken it. I even phoned his office and talked to someone there to make sure it was safe to use and she confirmed that yes, they use it for women who are pregnant a lot to help with that but couldn’t give me dosages or anything. Who knows, maybe it did help things stick and then we just had bad luck with the baby this time? It’s very frustrating not to know….

  23. Melissa says:

    I am having the same issue. Chemical pregnancy number four in two yrs. I am at a loss. Feeling very hopeless. All my test andU/S have came back normal so far. My dr said she wants to run some autoimmune bloodwork now. I just want to know whats wrong! I have had successful pregnancies before.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry. I hate that other people have to deal with this nightmare. I’m glad your doctor is being proactive and as strange as it sounds, I hope something comes back on your tests so that you have something to treat. Keep me posted on what happens.

      A

  24. Candice says:

    Hi All,
    Reading this story is so similar to mine! Back in 2009 I had 2 chemical pregnancies in a row, then got pregnant with my daughter and had a totally normal pregnancy (she was born in August 2010). Recently (December 2011 and January 2012) had 2 more chemical pregnancies. I don’t get why one worked and the others didn’t!? It’s so frustrating! My hubby and I are going to stop trying for a while now. Obsessing about this month after month makes me nuts. I’m sure, as most of you have found, no one you talk to really ‘understands’ chemical pregnancies. They all ‘act’ like you are doing something wrong or that you *really* didn’t see a positive on the test. My hubby believes me (thank goodness!) but my friends and my mom all say stuff like “well maybe you shouldn’t test so early” or “are you really sure you were pregnant… maybe your period was just late?” Thanks for making me feel more foolish friends and family… that’s what I really need right now. geesh. Anyway, I look forward to communicating with you guys because there isn’t a lot of info on chemical pregnancies out there.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m sorry to hear what you have been going through Candice. I totally understand where you are coming from with other people making you feel crazy. I heard everything you mentioned and then some. Look, if I don’t test and still miscarry, does it mean I didn’t miscarry? No!!! Ugh! I talked about all those feelings here.

      Good luck with taking a break, maybe that will do the trick. Keep me posted on your progress.

      A

  25. Lanie says:

    Thank you for your blog. It really helps to read about other women with the same issues. I’ve just had my 7th chemical pregnancy (one of those being an ectopic just so that I can now be “crazy” about losing a tube or dying). It is really frustrating to be “normal” and not just know how to navigate this path with doctors. At this point there is something very specific that is wrong and we just need to figure it out. I have some great questions from reading all of the stories to arm myself with at the next doctors apt. Thank you for providing a place to feel understood and accepted with this very specific issue.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry to hear what you are going through Lanie and I’m glad you are finding my blog to be helpful. I hope you have found a supportive provider who is willing to get to the bottom of this mystery with you. Keep me posted on your progress.

      A

  26. P says:

    Hello A,
    I just saw your posting for the first time as I have had 3 chemical pregnancies in the past three months. We are ttcing for our second child. first time around we got pregnant after 6 months of trying. Now, we started trying in Jan and already all three times we got pregnant and lost the pregnancy before 6 weeks. I am worried and want to start doing research so that this disappointment doesn’t come back. I would appreciate to use your advice as you have been here before me and thank god it seems that you are past this stage with help of your research. I would like to understand your research and see where I should start to understand my problem. Would you give me a short run on where to start to understand this??
    Thanks,
    P

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Peggy,

      I’m so so sorry to hear that you are going through this nightmare. I deeply feel for you and anyone who has to deal with that nightmare.

      If you haven’t had any testing run yet, I would start by asking your OBGYN to run the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel on you and see what comes up. For kicks and if they are willing, see if they will check your endometrial lining around day 9 of your cycle and see if its thick enough (8mm
      +.) Also, after having 3 back to back CPs, you may want to wait at least 1-2 cycles before trying again, give your body a chance to recover a bit.

      See what comes back on the RPL panel and your endo lining…if everything looks normal then you can start to dig deeper, if something comes up on those then its treatable. Keep me posted, I’m happy to offer my opinions. I’m so sorry.

      A

      • P says:

        Thank you so much for your advice. Really greatly appreciated. I got a referral to a RE and am now waiting for my dear first appointment, which is end of May…. I admire that you insisted and fought for your family and didn’t give in to the usual “blah blah” on CP. I too deal with my frustration/loss by learning more and more about how it can be prevented in the future and although the fact that I can’t get it out of my mind does frustrate me and drive me crazy I don’t have any other option. I can’t let another pregnancy end like this…

      • rowanthefrog says:

        I hope your first appointment goes well and the RE is willing to work with you to get you the successful pregnancy you deserve. Please keep me posted!

  27. Anton1a says:

    Thank you for sharing your experience, it is very interesting to read as I have just had my 3rd chemical pregnancy (just had 2 in 2 consecutive months) I have 2 children and had no issue with those pregnancies really, so the chemical pregnancies are puzzling. Have not started any investigations yet- do you mind me asking, how did things work out for you?

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Antonia,

      I’m so sorry to hear what you have been going through. Its very puzzling and confusing I know. As far as how things worked out, my second baby turns 1 on Tuesday, so I did end up having a successful, healthy pregnancy. The protocol that I followed to keep that pregnancy is detailed here.

      I hope that you have a successful pregnancy soon. Keep me posted.

  28. Marie says:

    Thank you for sharing your experience. It give me hop and I’m happy to see you found what was happening. I had three chemical pregnancy last year and right now I may having another one. I took three pregnancy test at home this week with two weeks late and all three were positive. I went for a blood test and came back neg. Yesterday, I took another home preg. test and came back positive, but I started bleeding one hour later. I went to ER and the doctor told me my BETA was in 14 and it was a “barely positive” and looks like I’m having another Chemical pregnancy. This is really frustrating, i don’t know what to do. Dr. told me to go to my OB on Monday for another blood test and then decide if is a real pregnancy, chemical pregnancy or what. I already have a healthy son, but I don’t understand why is so complicated to have another baby this time. I’m afraid to keep having chemical pregnancies from now on and never a healthy pregnancy. I’m thinking to get a RE referral to see if he can give better answer of what happening to me!!! Thanks again for sharing!!!!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry for your losses. Its extraordinarily frustrating, devastating and confusing, especially after having a healthy pregnancy. I hope you can find a great RE who will help you get to the bottom of what is going on and help you get successfully pregnant. Keep me posted.

  29. Lori Gomez says:

    I am just going through my 3rd loss. Two of which were chemical. I had no problems with my first pregnancy… T is 3 and she is amazing!!! What’s going on now … No clue. I also got repeated MC blood work done and all normal

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry for what you are going through. Its extremely frustrating when you know something is wrong but you can’t figure out why and how to fix it. I hope your DR is willing to help you dig in and find a solution or experiment with you to see what helps. The protocol that brought me my successful pregnancy is posted here. I am NOT a doctor, but it might be worth discussing with yours. Best of luck and please keep me posted.

      A

  30. Sindy says:

    Thank you for sharing your experiences on chemical pregnancies! I´ve had 5 of them in the past 9 months. We´ve been trying to have a baby for 14 months. This is ttc #3 for us and I´ve never had a miscarriage in my life, so this is getting a bit overwhelming for us to handle. It´s getting harder and harder to believe that anything good will ever come out of our ttc.

    Glad to see you eventually became pregnant and had a healthy baby boy, gives me hope that maybe we too can share tears of happiness some day.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I really hope you do….I’m so sorry for your losses. Its beyond frustrating and devastating. Have you had any tests run? What does your doctor say?

      A

  31. Sindy says:

    At this point, I´m on a waiting list to a local hospital, where a gynecologist decides what´s happening next. I live in Finland, and our healthcare system doesn´t take chemical pregnancies nor secondary problems in concieving a child too seriously.. of course there´s a possibility for us to go to a private clinic but they are really expensive, especially their treatments cost at least ten times more than they do in our public health care. I´ve already visited a private medical center where I was given clomid for four months, but after the latest chemical pregnancy a month ago, the doctor said clomid won´t do any good for me and put me on the waiting list to the hospital. I´ve had my progesterone tested a view months ago at 6 days past ovulation, it was 71. My other hormone levels are fine as well. My uterus lining has been 6mm thin by the time of ovulation, I think it may be the problem why implantation can not happen. By the end of my cycle the lining is no thicker than 6-7mm. My doctor also thinks I suffer from endometriosis, due to very strong pains during ovulation, and therefore I´m also on a waiting list for laparoscopy.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Your story sounds VERY similar to mine, down to the thin lining and painful ovulation. I ALWAYS had very painful ovulation, sometimes I could barely walk. They checked me for endometriosis (though not laparascopy) but in the end that was not my issue. Before you undergo the laparscopic surgery, do you think they would be willing to simply give you some estradiol (or estrogen tablets, not sure what its called in finland) from days 9-13 of your cycle, and monitor your lining growth. Its a much simpler and cheaper solution than surgery and may just be your ticket. The full protocol that finally resulted in a successful pregnancy is detailed here. http://recurrentearlymiscarriage.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/august-update/

      It may just be worth discussing with your doc and trying for a cycle or two before you head down the road to surgery. Painful ovulation isn’t necessarily an indicator of a problem.

      Best of luck and keep me posted on your progress.

  32. Sindy says:

    We have a certain protocol here in Finland how all fertility treatments are given and medicines subscribed. It will probably take months until all the blood work and the laparoscopic surgery are done for me and my husbands sperm checked if there´s something abnormal to be found which may cause embryos of poor quality. Our healthcare is top class but everything happens really slow, especially fertility and infertility treatments.

    But I will surely keep you posted when things start moving on. I just had a really painful ovulation last weekend and we decided to take advantage of it, but this time I´ll skip early testing and just wait for my period to start. Maybe it´s less painful just to start bleeding, than first test hpt positive and then lose another pregnancy.

    I just watched the photo of your pregnancy test series from your succesful pregnancy, I can imagine it must have felt amazing to finally see strong positive results that kept on getting stronger and lasted for the whole 9months.

  33. stacy says:

    thank you for sharing your story. I am currently going through my 11th chemical pregnancy (been TTC for 8 years!!!! ) I have been tested for anything and everything and was finally diagnosed with pai 4g/5g a year ago and this was the first pregnancy since then in which I was doing heparin injections 2x day to no avail.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Stacy,

      I’m so sorry to hear about the craziness you have been through. I can’t imagine having so many….I’m sorry that heparin didn’t help. I’ve heard of PAI but I’m not as familiar with it. What does your doctor say about next steps? Please keep me posted, I really hope you have the successful pregnancy you have been longing for soon.

      A

      • Stacy Kraft says:

        pai is plasminogen activator inhibitor. In summary during pregnancy is the one time a woman’s body is supposed to NOT form blood clots (as the trophoblast burrows into the uterine lining and begins to form the yolk sac and placenta) However, with pai 4g/5g the body doesn’t produce the necessary elements to break down blood clots, hindering growth of the pregnancy and ultimately resulting in miscarriage. In addition to heparin, I have to take Metformin as well as the doctor suspects insulin resistance. The doctor says that this pregnancy could have been just a “fluke” where the chromosomes weren’t lined up right. I have heparin on hand now so in the event of the next BFP I will be able to start heparin right then. If I continue to have more chemical pregnancies, well, it means that there are still undiscovered immunological causes out there waiting to be discovered by science. In the mean time I am working on getting as physically fit and healthy as possible and really working on my nutrition. I found a neat website that has lots of research on miscarriage and am learning about inositol (vitamin b8) I have the site bookmarked on my home laptop and will share that link on here later (I am at work right now) I wish the best of luck to all of the ladies out here that have,and that are, dealing with recurrent loss.

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Stacy, I remember some now. I had to go back and look at my testing documentation worksheet, it looks like I was tested for PAI-1, is that different from PAI 4g/5g?? (My results were normal on that and most of the testing I did.) I also took Metformin. It didn’t help me but it was a stab in the dark for me anyway. I know at least 2 other people who took it and had successful pregnancies because of it. A couple of other things you might want to check into are: http://www.etegritytest.com/ and http://www.millenova.com/tests/implantpan.cfm. The millenova lab can test for the natural killer stuff. Another friend of mine found out that she had very elevated NK cells and was also a partial DQ-Alpha match with her husband which explained her 6+ losses. She had her second healthy baby girl about 3 months after mine was born.

        Thanks for sharing your info on here, please don’t forget to post that link for any other ladies who might be looking!

        A

  34. Chinny says:

    I am so happy to see your blog. I conceived my son on first try. When he is two years we decided to try for #2. For 16months now i v had 4 cp’s am on the 4th one now, I had hsg last month on cd 11 they found out that i have uterine synachiae but i don’t believe it because if i had that, i wouldnt be able to conceive at all, so i will try your procedures, my question on what cd did you start your femara, and how many days does your period last?

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Chinny,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you are going through, its so devastating and frustrating. I took Femara from days 5-9, Estradiol from days 9-13 to build my lining. Once I got a positive OPK I took my trigger shot, I think it was day 13-14 and then 7 days after that I took my booster shot of Pregnyl. My period was always pretty short, about 5 days.

      HTH, let me know if you have any other questions!

      A

  35. Chinny says:

    Thanks for your reply. I couldn’t find femara within my city, so am taking clomid now. Does booster shot of pregnyl the same as pregnyl shot?

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Chinny,

      I took a trigger shot of Pregnyl (5000mg I think??) when I got a positive OPK and then the “booster” shot of Pregnyl (the other 5000mg) 7 days after the trigger shot. Pregnyl is pure HCG, the pregnancy hormone. The theory behind doing a booster shot was to provide some early hormonal support in the earliest stages of pregnancy. You have to wait for the booster shot to leave your system to test for pregnancy. I don’t know if that was the trick or something else, but that protocol worked for me.

      The generic name for Femara is letrozole. Its actually a breast cancer drug that helps produce a stronger ovulation without the side effects and risk of multiples that clomid has. But if you can’t get your hands on femara then clomid is an adequate substitution. Please keep me posted on your progress!

      A

  36. Chinny says:

    Thanks for your quick reply. I will keep you posted, my husby will be traveling on Sunday to come back after 2weeks while i will ovulate within those period he will not be around.
    So we will try next month.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Best of luck! I hope next month is THE month for you. Please keep me posted about your progress!

      A

  37. Jen says:

    Thank you so much for this blog. You have no idea how much you have helped me today. A little about my story, I have one beautiful almost 8 year old little girl. She was born on a whim while my husband and I were in the Caribbean. Our first month off birth control and BOOM – pregnant! She is SUCH a blessing in our life and the true light in my life. That being said, after she turned a year old we started trying to get pregnant again and have continued to try for the past 7 years. During this time, I was put on 18 months of clomid (I know – CRAZY) and had 3 chemical pregnancies. I truly believe now it’s been my lining. I have now completed 6 IUI’s but my last one was different (it was just a week ago). The doctor put me on follistim and ovidrel (with a booster shot just 2 days ago). The doctor said everything looked great and my lining was at like a 12 – FINALLY! I know it wasn’t that thick before. This time I had two strong eggs and my husband had an awesome count (383 mil) which the dr said was amazing (sorry if TMI). But I was still feeling down, until I read your posts. I truly think the cause of my last 3 chemical pregnancies has been because of my lining. The dr never said that, but there’s really no other reason (and I know my lining was thin because the ultrasound nurse mentioned it). We have done thousands of dollars worth of testing and the only thing they have come back with is a minor blood clotting gene that they say really isn’t the problem. They did go ahead and put my on baby aspirin and 4 extra doses of folic acid to help with my blood just in case though. So…all this to say, you have given me hope today when I so desperately needed it. I am praying this is our month and God grants us with our precious miracle. Thank you for your blog and for helping people all across the world.

    JC

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Jen,

      I’m so sorry to hear what you have been going through and I REALLY hope that this is your month to get pregnant and STAY pregnant!! Please keep me posted on your progress!

      A

  38. Lina says:

    I can not believe I find this today, I just got my 3 consecutive miscarriage, and I totally understand what you mean I know that something is happening to you but doctors don’t know o understand what it is, I am asking myself if I should keep trying :(

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Lina,

      I’m so sorry for your losses. It is incredibly frustrating and devastating. I also wondered if I should keep trying, but I kept looking for medical professionals who would help me, who would try to find the cause and treatment with me. Don’t be afraid to ask questions or switch providers if you don’t feel your doctor is taking you seriously. I also encourage you not to give up hope. After 4 miscarriages I finally became successfully pregnant with my second son. I know many women who had to wait longer than that and go through more than that, but they ultimately had a healthy baby as well. I hope you find some good information on my blog. I put it up to help other women going through what I did.

      Keep me posted on your progress.

      A

  39. Chinny says:

    Hi
    My dh didn’t travel again, so i took pregnyl injection yesterday when i got positive opk. Is it good to take duphaston after ovulation for the thickening of the uterine of lining?

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hey,

      No you can only thicken it pre ovulation. What is duphaston? Is that some form of estrogen?

      A

      Sent from my phone, please excuse typos!

  40. Chinny says:

    No it is some form Of progesterone.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      OK, yes you can take progesterone after ovulation but I don’t know if it will continue to thicken the lining or not. What does your doc say? Keep me posted once you start testing!

  41. Darcy says:

    Hi, I just found this blog and have read through some of it. I just suffered my eighth chemical pregnancy last month and now I took another test this morning and a VERY faint (I mean, almost undetectably faint!) was there, so I think it’s happening again. The good news is, although I have had eight of these frustrating experiences, I also have four beautiful children! And I have never sought treatment–so there is hope. I had all four of my kids in my twenties–and we were hoping to have one more–now that I’m in my early thirties. I am extremely fertile, just like the lady who wrote this blog–I get pregnant like the first month we don’t use birth control–but then my body seems to have a hard time keeping it in there. I think I understand what’s going on more now than I did back when it happened the first three times (after having two babies with no problems). I also was diagnosed with mild endometriosis a couple of years ago, but I have not read anything that linked the two issues with each other. It is a VERY frustrating and saddening thing to go through, even with four other children, but I do count my blessings and my thoughts and best wishes are for the rest of you! It seemed like for me it just worked sometimes and not others–it didn’t seem like anything I did made a difference. But I’m open to reading about suggestions because maybe it will happen even more now that I’m in my thirties–I don’t know. I thought maybe I’d try progesterone cream first. Anway, good luck to you all in this frustrating process.

  42. Sindy says:

    Promised to keep you updated so here´s a little information on what´s going on in our life at the moment.. My AF started on June 3rd. I ovulated without any medications cycle day 15. I started taking Primaspan (acid acetylsalic) 50mg/d starting from 1 dpo. Yesterday at 9 dpo, I had a fairly strong positive result on my home pregnancy test. Today the lines were equally strong! 10 dpo! So it seems that I´ve somehow managed to get pregnant during my natural cycle without any hormonal aid. I´m in a bit of a shock right now, I truelly did not expect to get pregnant from this cycle. Now all I can hope is that this pregnancy lasts the whole 9 months. I´m pretty sure this is not a chemical pregnancy, because the lines on my hpt were so strong. They´ve never ever been that strong during my c/p´s.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Sindy,

      What amazing news!! Congrats! I hope those lines keep getting darker and darker for you, please keep me posted, I want to know when you see a heartbeat!!

      Also, I’m curious about the Primapsan, what is that and what is it for? I’ve never heard of it.

      So so happy for you!

      A

  43. Karen says:

    HI, same story here, I am having my 7th CP now as I type this, very frustrating since I work for an OB and do the labs on them. I have been to a specialist, and have had laparoscopic surgery and several hsgs, and husband and I have both had bloodwork done, everything normal.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry Karen. Its unbelievably frustrating and I can only imagine how much tougher it must be for you to work in an OB’s office and see all the pregnant women coming in and out.

      Did you see this post? This is what ultimately resulted in my pregnancy with my second son. Perhaps you could suggest this protocol to your OB/Specialist and see if they would prescribe it for you. Another option would be to contact Dr. Bruce Lessey in Greenville, SC, since its his protocol and see if he would work with you remotely. The number for his office is (864) 512-6090. I live in Atlanta, but went for one appointment there and we did the rest of our consults over the phone.

      A

      • Diem says:

        Hey I’ve just found your blog and saw you live in atlanta?!?! I have the same issues as you… painful ovulation and very thin lining. (currently suffering a chemical) I wanted to see if we could talk over email? What clincs you went to in atlanta?

        Hope to hear from you

      • rowanthefrog says:

        I actually did most of my testing before I moved back to Atlanta. The doctor that prescribed the treatment that worked and resulted in my second son is in Greenville, SC. (Dr. Bruce Lessey.)

        However, I did have my early monitoring with Georgia Reproductive Specialists and they were great. Dr. Mark Perloe is highly respected. I’ve also heard wonderful things about RBA (Dr. Andrew Toledo). Atlanta Center for Reproductive Medicine has gotten several of my friends pg with IVF but I don’t have any personal experience with them.

  44. Sindy says:

    Primaspan is the same as aspirin, it´s just sold with a different name. My lines truelly kept on getting darker, yesterday at 12 dpo my clearblue digital told me Pregnant 2-3 :) And today my test has two equally strong lines, at 13 dpo. I´m very excited and happy to tell you these news, and to other too women suffering from recurrent chemical pregnancies. I had so many of them and now after 1 year and 4 months of trying, I finally became pregnant!

    I´ll have my first ultrasound in a couple of weeks, I will surely come to tell you what we saw, hopefully a heartbeat.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Sindy,

      So glad to hear those lines are getting even darker…sounds like a sticky one and that is just wonderful news!! I really appreciate you updating all of us and giving everyone hope :) I hope that everything continues to go and GROW well for you :)

      A

    • Angel says:

      I’m so happy for you hon yourin my prayers!

  45. Darcy says:

    Yeah, congratulations Sindy!!! This is wonderful news. I’ll be praying for you in the weeks ahead. (I always felt like I could breathe much easier after six weeks!) For me, the strong pink or blue positive line always indicated that things were right on track. It was those darn light lines that usually ended in grief and disappointment. Keep us posted!

  46. Sophia says:

    I love this blog. I just had a chemical pregnany in May and awaiting the return of my period to try again. Mr RE put me on one month of birth control pills to regulate and bring back the period as my last period was April 20th. I am praying anf trusting we get a BFP in July if not August. Last year I had a miscarriage too, exactly one year ago….but it was not diagnosed as Chemical.
    Baby dust to everyone on this board.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m sorry to hear about your losses Sophia. I really hope that your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms. Please keep me posted.

  47. P says:

    Hi A,
    I have posted here before after my 3rd CP (I just noticed that here was a mistake in my post as my 3 CPs weren’t in 3 consecutive months but oh well)… I was referred to an RE after 3rd CP and until he saw me I went through another one. He did the normal test panel and cycle monitoring and couldn’t find anything. Actually my lining was very good at that cycle so he rulled out the lining issue for me. He put me on Clomid instead of Femara as he said Clomid has better success rates and I don’t have a lining issue. I am CD 13 and first cycle on Clomid and have a big fat follicle measuring 27 mm and another one measuring 15 mm. My blood LH is surging and suppose to give me a max OPK tonight and if so I will do the trigger shot. I am hopeful but worried about the uterine lining as this morning (CD 13) was 5.5 – 6 mm (two measurments). RE decided to not put me on Estrogen until CD 19 as my blood levels of estrogen are high. if CD 19 my uterine lining is not adequate I will start. I am worried that he didn’t put me on anything for uterine lining right away and if I don’t get pregnant or god forbid lose another one I will insist on the full protocol next month. He is one of those drs that doesn’t like to hear other REs protocols and didn’t like me insisting on this protocol. The typical ego that most physicians have. Anyway, this is my update and I am nervous as I will do the trigger shot tonight after confirmation of my OPK +. Wish me luck!!

  48. emily says:

    Thank you so much for taking the time to write this blog. I have recently experienced a chemical pregnancy and i felt like you were describing my feelings exactly. My husband and I have been trying for 2 years. We have undergone tests and i’ve even have a laproscopic exploratory surgery and still have no good reason we can’t conceive. I saw my first ever positive hpt last wed. My first beta was 33 and 3 days later it was 6 so I guess its over. I am devastated. I suspect this isn’t my first chemical pregnancy I just don’t usually test before my period. I’ve tried the b6 and progesterone cream with no luck. I took clomid for the first time last month. My Dr thinks clomid didn’t cause this pregnancy and that we should try on our own again. I have a problem with this since I’ve been doing that for 2 years and it didnt work and I have paid him $500 to tell me nothing more than when I started seeing him. I think it may be time for a specialist even if I can’t really afford it. I really hope things work out for you in the best way. Please continue to share your experience and those who have been touched by your story will continue to show you support when you need it and excitement when the good news comes.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Emily,

      I’m so sorry to hear about your loss, especially after such a long journey to trying to get pregnant. I know its hard, but I think that perhaps a specialist might be a good next step for you. OBs are wonderful and they can help you try to get pregnant to a point, but truly their specialty is caring for pregnant women. An RE will have access to better testing and knowledge to help you get SUCCESSFULLY pregnant. Even insurance plans that don’t cover fertility treatments may cover diagnostic testing, which may be a good step for you. Please keep me posted on what is going on with you and I will keep you in my thoughts.

      A

  49. Krista Sem says:

    Hi there, I am so sorry to heat of your losses. My Story seems a litle like yours. My Daughter was born in 2000, when I was just 18 years old, after that my husband and I of 7 years never really tried for more, but I have a feeling after what I have been through these last 2 years, that we lost a few pregnacies in those 7 years that we thought where pure LUCK being we where not trying for anymore babies. After my devorice, and my marriage to my husband now, we started trying in Sep of 09 for babe, in Nov of 09 we where pregnant with our son, and delivered a healthy baby boy in July of 2010! After his birth, I was breastfeeding and thought I wasnt going to be one of those fertile mertiles that got pregnant while breast feedin, but I was wrong…In sep of 2010, I felt like I needed to take a test, I was tired all the time, and felt sick all of the time, low and behold, I was pregnant. I didn’t tell anyone but my sister, I didn’t know HOW to tell my husband! I didn’t even know how far along I was being I hadnt had a period after my son was born yet! I was overwhelmed, and nervous as to what the future would hold for us and having 2 babies in less then a year! I turned on a baby story and saw an episode of a couple that delivered there 2nd child 12 months after there 1st, and I was like, okay, I can do this…I told my husband, and kept saying, it will be okay, we will get though it! 4 days later, I started cramping and having light spoting, I figured that I was going to miscarry and thoght it was just to soon after A was born for me to have another. I did miscarry that baby in Sep of 2010. I was so hurt, I had gone from shock finding out, to be so excited to welcome my 3rd baby into our life, and then it was just taken from me. Since that day, it has been my goal to have just one more baby. My Journey to this day has been, a Miscarriage at 10 weeks, a Miscarriage at 6 week, and 11 chemical pregnancies. this has all happened in 2 years after my son was born. I to have had all the testing done, and have a very mild case of PCOS, I do take metformin to treat that, I don’t have any sympotms of PCOS though, I am a healthy weight, and I don’t have any other issues besides cyst’s that I do occationally do get. My protien C came back low, and I do have heprian avalible to me when I get a pregnancy to stick long enough to try the shots, but I havent had a pregnancy last longer then 4 weeks since last August, so I haven’t been able to try that yet. Unlike you, my progesterone is low with all of my pregnancies that I miscarry. I do start progesterone on day 18 of my cycle. So, 3 days after ovulation on day 14. I like you get pregnant every time we try, so obviously some thing goes right, I just can’t figure out what on earth can go wrong so soon after conception. I truely hope you don’t get to my number. My Doctor told me he had a women who miscarried 15 time before having a baby, I sat in that chair and thought, I hope to GOD I don’t hit that number! That conversation happend with my 5th, and now its 13 losses. I have read and read online hoping that I will find the issue, but everything I find is treatment for recurrent miscarriages, and my Dr has tried everything there is out there, and still nothing has worked. I would love to know if you and your father in law figure out anything. I have not had my uteran lining tested, I have never heard of that?
    I hope you get your happy ending.
    Hugs
    Krista

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Krista,

      I’m so sorry to hear your story and what you have been through. I can’t even imagine going through it so many times. Checking the uterine lining is actually very simple, starting around day 9 of your cycle your doc can measure your lining by ultrasound. A healthy lining should ideally be between 8-13mm by the time of ovulation. Mine was always incredibly low (3-6mm). The treatment is simple, I took estradiol (generic estrogen) to build it up. Then I did the entire protocol prescribed by Dr. Lessey, detailed here And it worked. That said, there is another woman I have been in contact with and her story is very similar to yours (1 successful pregnancy, 12+ CPs, m/c at 15 weeks due to trisomy and another I think at 8 weeks.) She ultimately had to do IVF, but her baby girl was born just a few months ago. She is actually the one who told me about Dr. Lessey and the beta 3 integrin testing. I hope you get your happy ending too. Please keep me posted.

      A

  50. Sindy says:

    Unfortunately this time I have only sad news to tell you. Our little baby became an angel two days ago, H6+3. The day before my beta was 1500 and we saw a gestanion sac which was too small, only 5mm. The bleeding and pains are totally different in comparison to chemical pregnancies, which makes this even more difficult to handle. I truelly thought we were finally going to have a real baby after 1 and a half years of trying. And now i miscarried. Our doctor told us we must not try to get pregnant again until they have examined me and my husband, and they can´t do blood tests for me until two months have passed from my latest miscarriage. I have a bad feeling that I´m going to end up with a bunch of angel babies and never again get to hold a real baby in my arms. This is such bad news that I came here to tell you that it brakes my heart to type this text.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Sindy,

      I am DEEPLY sorry to hear of your loss. How extraordinarily devastating to lose this baby. I wish there was something I could say to make it better, but it just SUCKS and its unfair, and I’m so so sorry. I’m very glad that your doctor want to run some tests to see what is going on. Why do they have to wait 2 months? I’m not questioning that, but I’ve never heard that before so I’m curious as to the reason why? Are you under an RE’s care? I remember very clearly the dark place you are in right now, wondering if you will ever really be pregnant and have a baby. I know its hard to hope, its easier for your heart to stop hoping…so I will hope for you. You will get to hold your baby one day, I know it. Even if you don’t know it, I do. Hang in there. I’m so so sorry.

      A

  51. lena says:

    Hello !
    I’m glad to have found your blog as I’m one of those who had 10+ chemical pregnancies, 11 to be exact after 2 successful full term deliveries. I did all the immune testing and treatment with Alan Beer center, I failed 3 IVF attempts with normal tested blasts, and of coarse I did all RPL and other tests available including endo biopsy for integrin and infections. The only thing I haven’t tried it pregnyl. I’m going to ask my RE next cycle to try it. So far I’m not ready to give up, but my time is running out, unfortunately. Good luck to you and thank you for documenting your journey.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Lena,

      Oh my goodness I am so sorry for all you have been through. Did you do DQ-Alpha as well? I wish I had some advice to offer you but it sounds like you have explored all the avenues. I did really like the Femara/Pregnyl protocol because I felt like my body needed some early hormonal support and it seemed to have worked. I hope your RE will let you give it a go. Its a pretty harmless protocol really and not expensive either!!!! If your RE won’t do it, I would suggest contacting Dr. Bruce Lesssey in Greenville, SC and talk to him. He may be willing to prescribe it for you remotely. Please keep me posted and I hope that your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms!

      A

      • lena says:

        thank you much for suggestion ! I’m going to talk to dr. B and if he’ll ask to fly there for testing, I’ll contact Dr.L. After flying to Mexico and CO for LIT and IVF few times each, we are kind of out of extra travel allowance.

  52. Angel says:

    I’m speechless. This is all so hard to read. I think I am having my second chemical pregnancy in two months! This time my last period was July 1. I ovulated July 12th and tested 8 dpo and got faint positive, then again on 9 dpo got another paint positive. Tested after that nothing but still Got sick twice of the 25th and started today. Very physically painful. I feel very sad. This is only the second time tring after I quit birth control. The first one I did not test twice just once than everything happened the same except I did not get sick last time. Will we be able to conceive? Should I try again on the 6th? Or dose my body need to rest so that this will not happen again. I’m praying for all of you to be blessed mommys! Amen! :)

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Angel,

      I’m so sorry for your losses. Its such a difficult thing to go through and especially back to back. Of course I am not a doctor, but I think your chances of conceiving are very good. Don’t despair. I would consider giving your body a month (or maybe even 2) to rest and regenerate. I know its tough when you really want to get pregnant, but going through this over and over is enough to drive you crazy. Take a little break and then try again. Also, while most OBs won’t run a Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel until you have had 3 losses, you might be able to push your OB into it if you insist, so you may want to try asking them to run that while you take your break, just to see if anything comes up before you try again.

      Best of luck and keep me posted!

      A

  53. Angela says:

    I just came accross this blog and wanted to share my journey. My husband and I have been trying for 4 years to get pregnant. I have had 2 chemical pregnancies in the last year. the most current one as we speak. I am soooo devestated. i have a healthy girl who is almost 10 and had a completely healthy pregnancy with her. Now, my husband and i are just confused. I am angry and upset. I am thirty now. I don’t know what is going on, but i have an appt with my OB on Tuesday to discuss some things. We have been trying every month for 4 years and twice my precious baby has been taken away. i didn’t even make it past 5 weeks with either pregnancy. But reading this blog has helped me understand and made me thankful for the daughter that i do have. i am going to have alot of questions for my OB-thanks to this blog. Hope everyone on here gets their miracle!! Thank you for the stories of hope.

    • Angela says:

      Just wanted to leave a update from my Dr.’s Appt last week. She is going to run a bunch of blood work in October-she does not believe i have only had 2 chemical pregnancies. She thinks it is closer to 4 or 5-and i kind of agree with her on it. Anyway, since i had the Rhogam (sp?)shot a couple of weeks ago, they can’t run anything until the beginning of October. hopefully we will find out some answers. She is ordering a blood clotting lab. She tried to explain it to me, but it was all like a different language to me. All i know is they are going to check just about every hormone that they can. Since i have had a normal pregnancy, she is concerned why i can’t stay pregnant now. Anyway, just an update and hopefully we will get some good news in October!

      • rowanthefrog says:

        I’m so sorry for your losses and I agree with your OB that it has probably been more. It sounds like she is being proactive and running some labs on you. Based on the results of those, hopefully you will have a clear course of action, but if not, especially given how long you have been trying, you may want to consider seeing a Reproductive Endocrinologist because typically they have access to more testing and better solutions and monitoring than your OB-GYN does.

        Please keep me posted and best of luck,
        A

  54. Francesca says:

    Hi,

    First of all I would like to start by saying I feel for everyone who has posted on the forum. Repeated loss of a baby is extremely difficult to deal with emotionally and can be a time where you feel very alone. there are also times where it feels like the roller coaster ride is consuming your life.
    I am so relieved to have come across your blog. My story is very similar to yours having had 2 children now 4 and 6 years old. Since getting the mirena out last June I have had 1 miscarriage and 4 chemical pregnancies. Both my husband and I have been tested for everything under the sun and I have also received a second opinion from a specialist. They have no answers. I have had a feeling for a while that it has had something to do with my lining, however whenever I have broached this with doctors they have dismissed the idea. I was very interested to hear that you have had issues with your lining and that it may be in fact the reason for the chemical pregnancies. I am interested to know if you have continued down an alternative treatment path. Best of luck to everyone. I sincerely hope that everyone has the opportunity to experience a successful pregnancy in the near future.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Francesca,

      Thank you for your comment and I’m so sorry to hear about all you have been through. I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked about the roller coaster it takes you on. I don’t know if you finished reading the blog, but I ultimately was able to get successfully pregnant with my second child, he is now 16 months old.

      I detailed the protocol that helped me get pregnant with him here.

      There are some parts of the protocol (specifically Femara) that makes some specialists uncomfortable, but certainly it could be something you present to your doctor to see what they say. In any event, it resulted in a healthy pregnancy for me and if I decide to get pregnant again then I will immediately try this again and not mess around.

      Please keep me posted on what your doctor says and I hope you have a healthy baby in your arms soon.

      A

  55. Cara Hughes says:

    Hi all, i am at the moment going through my second chemical pregnancy but 3rd miscarriage. I have a beautiful son who will be two on sunday and he is everything I could wish for and more. My first miscarriage was my first pregnancy and it was only when i went for my 12wk scan that they told me there was a pregnancy sack but no baby, I went through an extremely traumatic miscarriage, heavy and painful and ended up in hospital. I went on to have my son a year later and me and my other half decided to try for another now he is nearly two. I found out I was pregnant, about 3-4wks but within a day I had a tiny amount of blood and was sent to the hospital for blood to be taken to check my HCG levels, they were not very high but was normal for early pregnancy, they repeated the test 48hrs later and my HCG level went up but didnt double. They took blood another 3 times over the next week and a half anf did an early pregnancy scan even though they already knew the pregnancy had failed, I just didnt see the point with it all as it was frustrating and upsetting. I havent told my partner about this chemical pregnancy as he is working away at the moment and has a lot on his plate with work but Iv spoke to my doctor and he said that I probably wasnt pregnant in the first place but the two positive tests I had in my hand told me different. I only know that I have suffered chemical pregnancies due to the research on the internet I have done and that is where I found this blog. It is reasuring to know that there are others out there going through what I am going through and that there can be a happy outcome in the end. Im sorry for ranting on with myself but I just wanted to share my story with someone that understands, Thank you x

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Cara,

      I apologize for my delayed response to your post and I’m deeply sorry for all you have been through. Thank you for sharing your story. I hope that you can find some good information here and of course if you have any questions please let me know. I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms.

      A

  56. Sindy says:

    Sorry it took me so long to reply. I´m not sure why we should have waited for two months after the latest miscarriage until my bloodwork could have been done. Since we didn´t have much faith in getting pregnant any time soon, we decided not to use any contraceptives while waiting. But now, from the second cycle after our miscarriage, I tested a very strong positive on my hpt. It seems that chemichal pregnancies are no longer a reason to worry for us, but now the problem is that the pregnancy may not proceed as we would hope. I´m h4+0 now, and at 6+5 will be our first ultrasound. I feel somewhat less stressed out about this pregnancy than I did in july, so I´m quite curious to see if we´re actually going to have a baby now.

    Lots of hugs and warm thoughts to all of you who are going through chemical pregnancies/miscarriages. I hope and pray that one day we will all hear our little babies first cry after a full term pregnancy.

  57. tullulahbell says:

    Hi all, great to read your posts.

    I’m 38 and I’ve just had my 2nd CP in 10 weeks. Had it not been for your posts I wouldn’t know what to do. I have made an appointment to see the Dr and will test progesterone, estrogen and lining. Thank you for your advice – this has been devastating.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Tullulah,

      I’m so sorry to hear of your losses and I’m glad that my information has helped you. Please let us know what your doctor says and keep us posted!

      A

  58. Sindy says:

    Thank you for asking! Thing´s are going fine, last week we saw a heartbeat and our tiny baby was excactly the right size for H6+5, 8mm. So everything is perfect now, my pregnancy symptoms are really strong (I´ve been vomiting for a week now) and I haven´t had any bleeding or pain. My due date is 24.5.2013 and i truelly hope we´ll make it there.

  59. Liz says:

    I just had a chemical pregnancy and it isn’t my first I totally feel the way you do as I’m trying to figure out what I’m doing wrong :(

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Liz,

      I’m so sorry for your loss. You aren’t doing anything wrong. As difficult as it is to come to terms with, there is NOTHING you are doing to cause these losses. However, something may not be right in your body and the first step to figuring out what that may be is to ask your OB to run the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel on you. Its a simple blood test for a variety of different issues and most of them are very easily treatable. Consider asking your OB for this. Sometimes they don’t offer until you have had 3 losses, but a lot of times they will run it if you ask. I hope that helps. Please keep us posted.

      A

  60. Umasree says:

    Even I m in the same situation.. Just had my second chemical Pregnancy 2 days ago. The first was in Nov 2012 :( :(So can you tell me what are the precautions that you have taken for successfull pregnancy..I eat health food, No smoke No drink
    do regular excersice etc.. Please gimme some tips to avoid furture Chemicals :( Thanks a lot in advance

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry for your losses. Its so frustrating and difficult to go through. Has your doctor run a Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel on you? I would try that first. There is nothing you are doing (or not doing) that is causing these losses, however you may have an internal issue which is contributing so I would recommend having that blood test run first. Keep us posted.

      A

  61. Umasree says:

    what is Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel?Which blood test?? Pls advise

  62. Jessica says:

    I have one beautiful healthy2 year old and my husband and i ahve been trying since aug. I get pregnant about every other time and then within hours or a few days I have a chemical. Its so frustrating. We pay out of pocket for our medical expenses and I dont have the money to get tests and check into more until next year. Very discouraged. We only want one more.

  63. Lorianne says:

    Hi, my names lorianne, not sure where your from but I live in the u.k. I’m having the same problem. I’ve had 3 miscarriages (chemical pregnancies) in the past year, but I seem to get pregnant ridiculously easy. (during six months of the past year I had the coil, long story but I knew I ‘got’ pregnant 4 months out of the six I had the coil…but at the same time knew the coil would kill the pregnancy off). I find the doctors responses devastating…they don’t seem to believe I get pregnancy symptoms so early (I know I’m pregnant 3 days after conception and get ALOT of symptoms), and they don’t seem to care as its ‘not a baby yet’. As I’m only 26 they seem to think I have plenty of time and won’t send me for testing until I’ve been trying for 2 years. (which will probably add up to a lot of miscarriages). Also I’ve noticed I get pregnant only a few days after my period ends….and pregnancy tests show positive way before my periods due. (10 days earlier this time!) right now I’m waiting for my ‘period miscarriage’ which is due in 6 days. And I had a positive test 4 days ago which is getting increasingly lighter (as they always do). I’ve so far not gone past 6 weeks. And what scares me is if I didn’t have such strong pregnancy symptoms so early on besides the first miscarriage (which was a clear loss in the form of a fetus [6wks]) I probably wouldn’t even think I could actually GET pregnant, as I lose the baby around when my period is due. any light you could shed on this would be very helpful, as in general doctors, family and friends really don’t seem to get how much it’s affecting me. I’m sorry your going through a similar experience :(

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Lorianne,

      I’m so sorry to hear what you are going through and your symptoms, timing, everything is very familiar to me. Most people don’t believe me either when I tell them how early I know I’m pregnant, but I’m always right.

      I know the medical system in UK is very different from what we have here in the US, but can you switch providers? Can you talk to someone and ask for the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel (RPL, that’s what its called in the US.) I find it completely absurd that they would make you wait 2 whole years, even with how young you are. Here its 1 year or 3 miscarriages for under 35 (generally) but if you push you can get testing earlier.

      Have you gotten any blood tests to show your HCG dropping? Perhaps if you get that documentation then you can insist on the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss Blood Panel, a battery of blood tests for a variety of issues: clotting, thyroid, etc. Its a very simple blood test and if it turns out that you do have an issue, the solution is sometimes as simple as taking a baby aspirin or thyroid med…sometimes you might need blood thinner injections, but its all worth it if it works.

      I hope that helps. The #1 lesson I learned in my troubles is to find a doctor who will listen to you and believe you. If you have one that doesn’t, then change until you find someone who is willing to help.

      Please keep me posted.

      A

  64. Deborah says:

    Amazing to read these stories – mine is very similar. I have a daughter that is 3.5 years old (got pregnant first month trying with no difficulty!) and my husband and I started trying about 2 years ago for a second child. I got pregnant the first month and then miscarried right at about 5 weeks. In the last 2 years, I have had 8 chemical pregnancies. I am hypothyroid and been diagnosed through the chemical pregnancies with antiphospholipid antibody disease (blood clotting disease). I take daily synthroid and baby aspirin. I have had two rounds of Clomid and three of Femara. I got pregnant on the final round of Femara. I am now 40 years old and just suffered another loss. I am mad at the world!!! Once I get through my anger, we are hopeful to have a healthy pregnancy. Thoughts, ideas, suggestions on how I help make that happen?

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Deborah,

      I’m so deeply sorry for all that you have gone through. I know how it feels to be mad at the world and I would be too if I were in your shoes. It sounds like you have been through a lot of the testing, but have you had your Natural Killer cells tested? http://www.milab.us/tests.html#nka

      What does your RE say?

      A

  65. lina says:

    Same thing to me 4 miscarriages in a year (I am old) but I get pregnant even when we don’t try.
    My doc did a lot of testing (lupus and immunology as some times your body is so strong that you kill them as a defense system, some of the studies were send to UK some to Chicago) but everything was fine, my body is crazy now specially my thyroid.
    They told me, and I read about it, there is a clinic in UK specialize in multiple miscarriage (and I am sorry but you are now) the doc there is famous world wild.
    They have done some studies, and taking mini aspirin in the first trimester can help people with multiple ones, but talk to your doctor and try to find the Clinic in UK, I did have all the info as my Doc in HK give me all the info an she follow really close the investigations in UK.
    We give up :( too much to deal with it, and now everybody around me is with a big belly :(

  66. Littlebird says:

    Hi there

    Not sure if the doctor you are referring to is one I have been in contact with but his name is Jan Brosens at the University of Warwick. He is super helpful and they can do the NK cell testing there. If you Google him you should be able to find the info.

    Good luck!

  67. lina says:

    I am trying to get the aticle but I dont have it anymore, the Doc is Women, before my doc told me about her, I did saw long time ago a documentary in I think Discovery about her and her clinic, I will write my Doc to ask her about the doc in UK and will write you when I have her name.

  68. Littlebird says:

    Maybe Siobhan Quenby? They work together. Here is an article about them: http://www.news-medical.net/news/20130117/Miscarriage-and-molecular-signals-an-interview-with-Prof-Brosens-and-Prof-Quenby.aspx

    Either way, please let us know if there is another doc out there too. This problem is so frustrating and it’s such a roller coaster of emotions. I’m sure the more info any of us can get the better.

    For what it’s worth, Dr Brosens advised me against taking baby aspirin although all my docs here in Canada had me on it and have told me to take it. I’ve been on it for a few of my mc so I figure it’s not helping anyways so will skip it this time (although he did advise taking another kind of blood thinner via shots if I do get pregnant again because of raised NK cells). Good luck to everyone here and please let us know what you find out!

  69. India says:

    Firstly thank you so much for sharing your story. My own story is so similar to your own… One beautiful baby, coil, then 3 cp & 1 mc. I am now on the waiting list to see a specialist (here in the UK it works a little differently) but reading you story has filled me with hope (and fight!) I felt so lost and although it saddens me that other women are in the same situation I hope they can find strength and hope in reading this blog as I have done. I wish you the best of luck with #3. And thank you again.
    India xxx

  70. Angela says:

    Hi. I just wanted to give everyone on here an update. I posted on here last August about the 2 CP’s i have had. since then, i have had blood work and surgery. I have also seen a specialist. I am scheduled to have another surgery next week to get my tubes tied. As sad as i am, i am told this is the only to go. I was advised by both my OB and the specialist that i should not get pregnant again (due to my tubes being messed up. That is what caused my CP’s.) and if i did get pregnant again, the chance was high that i would have an ectopic and it would kill me. (no dramatization there, those were the specialist exact words! talk about scary!). I have come to terms with everything that has gone on in the last 8 months, but it is still very sad to know that i will never be able to bring another child into this world. As it is, I do have one healthy 10 year old and i do feel very blessed, as both of doctors are surprised i was even able to get pregnant. They are both of the opinion that my tubes have been messed up for a VERY long time, probably even before i started my period. I just wanted to say though, that this blog made me feel so much better and not so alone last August. Even though my story has a sad ending, at least I am alive and have a daughter and husband who love me. After everything i have gone through in the last 2 years, i have come to terms with what i have to do to protect myself and my family. Thank you so much for the words of encouragement and hope. I just wanted everyone to know the end result with me. Good luck to everyone reading this and I hope you all get your miracle,

  71. Jessica says:

    This is a follow up to my posting last year and a response to Jenna:

    After a fourth chemical pregnancy I went in for an HSG which was unpleasant and inconclusive. They didn’t see any obvious blockages in the tubes, no major scar tissue from the IUD surgery and the shape and size of the uterus all normal.. The only possible thing they saw was that potentially there might be internal scar tissue from an emergency appendectomy I had a few years ago that may have tangled up one of my fallopian tubes and pulled it out of ‘catching’ range of the eggs each month but that wouldn’t explain chemical pregnancies. Well, the good news is that whatever happened with the HSG procedure whether we identified it or not, it seemed to have fixed my problem and I got pregnant the very next month and am now 21 weeks with my 3rd baby due in October who is healthy and normal and no problems so far aside from early bleeding in this pregnancy which I’ve never experienced before but went away on it’s own after the first trimester. Hope that info helps some and best of luck to you!

  72. jennaleen says:

    Jessica,

    Thank you very much for your response. Im glad to hear that you are happily expecting and I hope things continue to be great. I will keep you posted! This is my first cycle after my 2nd Chemical Pregnancy, and had a m/c once as well, all within the past 10 months.
    I too am trying for the third and was starting to blame in on the Mirena perforation, but it was a v small scar.

    Thanks again,
    My best,
    Jenna

  73. Colleen says:

    Thank you for openly writing about your experience. I’m interested in your journey as we have also had multiple losses. Our first pregnancy was a chemical pregnancy, our second was stillbirth at 28 weeks and our third is another chemical pregnancy. I would love to hear how you are doing and also any information you have found regarding chemical pregnancies. Thank you!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Colleen,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you have been through. A CP after a stillbirth just seems like a slap in the face. I’m so sorry for your losses. I posted tons of information on my blog as I researched what was going on with my body. Have your docs run any tests on you? The Recurrent Loss Panel? Are you seeing a specialist? The first step is to get that Recurrent Pregnancy Loss Panel run and see what comes up. Usually your OB can order that for you. I have lots of other info on the blog, please feel free to look around, the beginning is here. Read through the posts and if you have other questions just comment, I’m always happy to answer!

      I have had 2 successful pregnancies since all my losses, I have a 2 year old and I’m 11.5 weeks pregnant now. This is the protocol I followed to stay pregnant with both my younger son and my current pregnancy. I hope that helps. Please keep us posted on your progress!

      A

  74. Betty says:

    I’m a health professional and I am also going through my second chemical pregnancy loss. I recently went to a talk by a fertility specialist who was explaining that when they do egg harvesting for IVF in a young woman (mid 20s) 50% of the eggs are not viable or have some genetic anomaly. Also up to 14% of sperm in a “healthy” male have some genetic abnormality. So I do think that it’s possible that a lot of chemical pregnancy losses may be related to genetic abnormalities in the embryo. Either the embryo itself develops abnormally and then is lost or a woman’s body detects an abnormaility and sheds the embryo. The older you are, the more “bad eggs” you have, the older your husband is, the more “bad sperm” he has. Uber-sensitive pregnancy tests that can detect early pregnancy (at beta HCG levels as low as 20) are relatively new, so without these, many chemical pregnancies would never be detected, women would just think their period was late.
    I agree that there is not enough info out there on chemical pregnancies, but I do think they are way more common, and many women who are trying to get pregnant are just hyperaware of their bodies and symptoms and so this issue is now being raised.
    That being said, it is really important to have some investigations to make sure there is nothing wrong. Personally I am having two issues: one is a subclinical thyroiditis – meaning my TSH is mildly elevated but still within “normal.” But in anyone trying to get pregnant the TSH should be less than 2.5 or there is an association with early loss. I also had an ultrasound which shows that I have an intracavitary fibroid, which may be affecting implantation. So I am now on thyroid medication and I am waiting on a consultation to have the fibroid removed.
    Here’s hoping it works!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Betty,

      Thanks for sharing your information! Yes, I agree that genetic abnormalities can cause of a lot of losses, but what upset me was that some medical professionals dismissed all my losses just due to that, and weren’t willing to check into a variety of other causes. I’m sorry to hear about what you are going through. It sounds like you have at least two identified issues, so I hope that once those are resolved that you have a healthy baby in your arms! Please keep us posted!

      A

  75. Gracie says:

    So sorry to hear your story. Hope you are able to fulfill your dream of having another baby born healthily. I miscarried twice in 3 months I started to try just after I turned 18 this January gone. Hope I succeed next time around

    Best wishes to you all
    X

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry for your losses. I did eventually succeed in getting pregnant with my second and I’m currently pregnant with my third. I posted what ultimately worked for me here.

      I hope your next pregnancy brings a sweet baby into your arms.

      A

  76. Lauren says:

    Thank you for your blog. I had a mc at 11. Followed by a my daughter who is now two. We have had 5 chemical pregnancies since November. Well 4 for sure and I’m pretty sure this will be 5. I hate saying this but I’m glad I’m not alone. Please keep up your research ad if I can help in any way let me know. Or if u need to vent.
    Thank you and best of luck!

    Ps this sucks

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Lauren,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you have been through. It completely sucks and is incredibly frustrating. Have you had any testing done?

      A

  77. Maria says:

    Hi

    I have had 10 pregnancies before finally having a little girl by having HCG injections from 4 weeks to 13 weeks. I’m now back on the horse an have had a further miscarriage and am pregnant now at 5 weeks and waiting to see. Spotting so not too hopeful!!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Maria,

      I hope that things are going well in your current pregnancy. What a journey you have been through. Did they ever do any testing to see what was wrong? I’m glad the HCG injections helped. I hadn’t heard of taking them through 13 weeks, that is very interesting! I really hope that this next one is a good one for you. Please keep us posted.

      A

  78. shilpa says:

    I m trying to conceiving from last 6 months.last month I m getting the periods late for six days.this month also I got negative hcg test but no periods since for three days. I’m already getting susten and folsafe from one month.pls help me out why m not getting pregnant as l have already one three n half old baby girl and second miscarriage about two years ago.

    • shilpa says:

      Consult gynaecologist..

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Shilpa,

      I’m so sorry to hear you are having issues getting pregnant. Are you charting? Do you know when you ovulate? Are you sure that you are actually ovulating? It sounds like you might be having long cycles. If you aren’t exactly sure when you are ovulating, then its difficult to know when to have well timed intercourse for conception. I read this book when we first started trying to get pregnant and it was both informative and fascinating and I learned so much about how my body works and how to identify when was the best time for conception. I would recommend reading that and also consider asking your doctor to run day 3 bloodwork to test your hormone levels and ovarian reserve. Hopefully that will help.

      A

  79. Maria says:

    Hiya

    Thanks for your lovely email.
    Unfortunately we went for the 6 week scan this week and its not viable. I started to miscarry today. But you know what – I’m doing ok.

    Nothing every showed up on the tests and I have been to several centres such as Liverpool Women’s. the husbands swimmers are great and my eggs are at the expected level for my age. The HCG and baby aspirin were something to try and it worked first time! But it hasn’t worked the last two times but I developed diabetes having my little girl and it hasn’t gone so I think it’s a whole new set of issues now – joy.

    Can I just say that people who suggest that you just need to forget about testing and tracking ovulation/pregnancy really don’t have a clue about the situation some of us find ourselves in. I have to test so I can begin treatment. I tried to go with the flow and had 6 miscarriages! I find it a little insensitive that people like to tell you to go on holiday and have date nights to name some of the classics I’ve had. That and my fave comments… It’s not a baby! It’s the hope of a baby and its sad when its gone.

    Sorry for the rant.
    Slightly hormonal!
    M x

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so so sorry :( Nothing ever showed on my test results either, which was incredibly frustrating. I agree with you about people who say to “relax.” Drives me insane. Heard all the same things and its just not helpful at all and really quite insulting, as if something you or I are doing is causing the problems.

      Have you had your Natural Killer levels tested?

      A

  80. Maria says:

    Hi Love

    No I haven’t had that test. I tried to at Liverpool but was told by the Professor that had been working on the project that he didn’t think it was my issue.

    I had been struggling to conceive – we tried the second month after my little girl was born and nothing for 2 years. So I dropped 2 stone and we found out I am diabetic so started Metformin and bang within 2 months we were preggars. So Shilpa – maybe get your blood glucose checked? Anyway – I’m trying to be positive and looking at the good side we have at least now conceived twice in the last 5 months. So that’s progress!

    I’m tempted to try and see the consultant and ask about Prednisone? Sorry I think I’ve spelt that wrong! Not sure what else to try.

    I’m 36, my husband is 43 and we are giving it 12 months so I worry I’m runnin out of time. And it’s very hard juggling work, toddler and hcg injections/scans/miscarriages. Sometimes feel like a robot.

    X

    • Maria says:

      I forgot to say that my lining was 9mm at 5-6 weeks pregnant and after a shot of pregnyl – is that too thin?

      Any advice would be appreciated
      X

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I have had several friends get pregnant on Metformin. It increases your progesterone levels if I recall correctly. I took it for a time before I got pregnant with my second son, not for any particular reason, other than the RE said that “it had helped some of his patients.” I also took Prednisone. Neither helped me though. But both my older sister and a friend of mine also took Metformin and got pregnant right away.

      re: your lining. Most REs won’t do a transfer if your lining is less than 6mm. I would say 9mm is at the low end of what is ok around ovulation time. I have no idea what it should be once you are pregnant though. But I would think it would get thicker? Have you taken some estrogen before ovulation to thicken it up? Might be worth a shot. It certainly can’t hurt. I took it from days 9-13 of my cycle, until I got a positive OPK.

      A

  81. Maria says:

    Hi ladies

    I was hoping for some advice. I’m feeling really shakey and faint. The bleeding is lighter and wasn’t massively heavy. Passed a few clots so thought I’d done the hard bit. But tested today and conception indicator still saying 5 weeks pregnant and I feel faint!

    I normally drop in hcg really quick as it never normally gets too high. It’s been 11 days since last hcg jab so that’s out of my system. My blood sugars are fine. I normally get tired when I miscarry but not shakey and faint.

    Bit confused – do any of you feel like this when you miscarry?

    Thanks

    Mx

  82. sarah says:

    This is a very interesting blog. I dont know if you are already aware of this research but a recent theory on recurrent miscarriages involves the idea that some womens bodies are exceptionally welcoming to all little babies. i.e. they are actually superfertile. Such women get pregnant very easily, which it sounds like you do, and their bodies create a welcoming environment for any fertilised egg, even if it is not of quite a high enough quality to continue to form a mature embryo. As pointed out by another responder, it is considered possible that as many of 70% of all conceptions end in almost immediate misscarriage but this is missed by most women. However for those who can see a positive pregnancy test for a good few days, perhaps their bodies are exceptionally welcoming to fertilised egg, allowing it to survive longer that it would in most womens bodies. The link to an article describing this research about super fertile women and recurrent losses is here.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-19361432

    It seems a more positive way to view your body, i.e. that it is just trying to do its absolute best to nurture any fertilised egg even if that particular fertilised egg does not have the genetic credentials to develop properly. Super fertility certainly puts women through much emotional trauma but this kind of explanation makes it seem hopeful for the future. Once the right egg and sperm collide, your body will make a wonderful home for the little baby, it will just take a little time and involve sadness and an emotional rollwer coaster along the way, but you will get a healthy baby at the end. Good luck xxxx

  83. Kizzy says:

    I honestly feel that you are no a special case of infertility or pregnancy loss. I think you are just a case of science and technology. Most pregnancies end on miscarriage. Honestly, over 50%-66% before the woman even know she is pregnant, but due to early detection, women are now finding out in the worst possible way that pregnancies often don’t stick. Most of the time is due to sporadic mutations that occur before or after fertilization. The cells of the future embryo are rapidly dividing during this time and going through natural check points, and if for any reason the DNA of one chromosome is loss or double during this constant replication, the cells are order to commit suicide (apoptotic). Most likely is no you who has any issues. If I were you, I won’t check for pregnancy until a period is well missed like 2 weeks later. Especially, since you aren’t having a very heavy bleeding with the miscarriages so if you didn’t test you would’ve no know you were pregnant. I hope I didn’t offend you. I had dealt with this myself and looking for answers led me to developmental research.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Kizzy,

      I don’t necessarily disagree with you regarding the rates of miscarriage and the effects of early detection. However, not checking until I am 2 weeks late wouldn’t make any difference to me because I know I’m pregnant often days before I get a positive test due to symptoms that I have. For me, not checking is the equivalent of sticking my head in the sand and I would rather know that I am pregnant, even if I ultimately lose the pregnancy, then wonder why I’m throwing up and feeling horrible for a couple of weeks before I start to bleed. But that’s me.

      I think the best explanation that I have found as to why some women have so many losses, especially early on, was discussed in this post and article:

      http://recurrentearlymiscarriage.wordpress.com/2012/08/29/interesting-development-regarding-women-who-are-super-fertile-and-recurrent-miscarriages/

      I had 1 successful pregnancy and 5 losses leaving things up to nature and my body. Thats an 86% loss rate or 16% success rate, depending on how you want to look at it. That also exceeds your quoted 50-66% miscarriage rate. Personally, that tells me that something is not working properly.

      All that said, because of my research and the hunting that I have done for answers, I found a doctor to help me and a pretty easy and inexpensive medicial protocol that resulted in the successful birth of my second child in May 2011 and I’m currently 21 weeks pregnant with my third son. I detailed what worked for me here. I used this protocol twice and both times it resulted in a successful pregnancy for me. That’s a 100% success rate.

      I don’t find your post offensive, but I have to say that comments such as yours grate on me. You are not the first to tell me to just not test. But just because I (or any other woman) doesn’t know, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. And oftentimes so many losses ARE indicative of a problem. If you didn’t know, then you would keep losing pregnancies (without knowing) and simply think that you couldn’t get pregnant in the first place, and never realize that you needed help. How many women were considered “barren” 40-50 years ago, that probably were conceiving and losing pregnancies due to a clotting disorder or other reason, that could have been helped and had children if they had only known what was wrong?

      If it is easier for you to wait and not test then I’m glad you have found something that helps you deal with it, but that’s just not how I operate.

      A

    • Maria says:

      Well I’m offended by your comments. I have had 10 miscarriages at 6-10 weeks and my most recent pregnancy this week has ended in a ruptured ectopic pregnancy. I have lost my tube and my other tube is buggered and also needs to come out – so forgive me for saying that comments that my situation is natural and normal and is because I pregnancy test the day my period is late is a joke and a comment made without any consideration for people feelings or reality!

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Maria,

        Hugs. I’m so sorry to hear about your most recent loss and that you have lost your tubes. How devastating. I’m so so sorry.

        A

  84. Maria says:

    Thank you.
    We are still in shock and recovering from the surgery. I now have to decide if I can face IVF meanwhile mourning the baby that didn’t want to give up growing an the loss of my fertility all together. Miserable and a bit heart broken. X

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I don’t know what to say to make it easier. I wish I did. Please know that my heart and thoughts are with you. I’m so so sorry.

      A

  85. Maria says:

    Thank you. I’ve not really talked to anyone about it yet and your email has made me feel a little less lonely.

    I know in a few weeks I will pick myself up and remember why we keep going through this and try IVF.

    But for now its all a bit raw and a bit daunting x

  86. Vanessa says:

    Thank you I have been having the Same issue.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry Vanessa. I hope you find some helpful information here. Please let me know if you have any questions, I’m always happy to offer my opinion!

      A

  87. Squib says:

    I’m so grateful and relieved to have found your blog – Thank you.
    I have many similarities to the other ladies on here, experiences, feelings and opinions.
    My question: how long is your cycle? When you say have x test at cycle day x, would this change if your cycle wasn’t 28 days? Should it be calculated relative to O?
    My comments (mostly angry):
    For the lady that was asking about the UK specialist, did you mean Prof. Lesley Regan?
    I’m sick of Drs who don’t take me seriously and it’s nice/terrifying to hear I’m not alone and great to see that when you pushed it you got results.
    Exactly how is relaxing going to make me pregnant? Doesn’t that mean that unwanted pregnancies could be avoided if we all just worried about the prospect of getting pregnant?
    Chemical pregnancies don’t count? The definition of pregnancy is conception (which happens before implantation which happens before a pos HPT) miscarriage is loss of any pregnancy. Recurrent mc is 3 mcs. If your Dr won’t count a chemical preg as a miscarriage, tell them to take it up with every ob-gyn board in the world and get the definition changed.
    I’m testing too early and mc are normal? See my last point.
    Finally, I can’t help but think that I this was a “men’s health issue” it would be taken a lot more seriously, but our complaining/concerns get dismissed because we a “hysterical women and its all just down to our hormones”.
    Wow – that was angry, sorry, I know I’m preaching to the choir here.

    My story
    I’m 33 and my husband is 32. I have PCOS but get AF if I am gaining weight (that’s the first thing Drs don’t believe because weight loss is supposed to help PCOS but I AM the opposite). We stated ttc in Jan this year and got pregnant right away (so relieved to find out that I even O). I spotted the entire time and had a couple of ultra sounds and was told everything was fine (but when the baby was measuring 6 weeks it had a heart beat but no yolk sac, still told everything was fine though) I felt the mc a couple of days latter (I had felt like i was on ecstasy from before i even got my BFP but one morning i woke up and it was just gone) and had it confirmed a week latter by ultrasound (they wouldn’t see me because of my ‘feeling’ so I lied and said I had been bleeding heavily – they asked to see my liner!!!! – but I said I had just changed it). I didn’t bleed at all so had a D&C a week later. I’m living in the UK and they don’t do any testing here until your 3rd mc, so I don’t know what the “genetic abnormality” was officially). Since the. I have had 2 cycles and 2 chemicals. Both with faint BFPs, one for a day and the other for 3 days. The first chemical there were no investigations. The 2nd they did an ultrasound and blood test for hCG and progesterone at 14DPO but by then my hCG was already down to 3 and so was my progesterone. My lining (I was spotting but only lightly at that stage) was already 6mm (after reading your story I’m thinking this sounds too thin).
    I’ve got my first appointment tomorrow (with Lesley Regan for those in the UK) and will definitely raise this with her.
    Thanks everyone for sharing your stories (I’m so sorry for your losses) but I really needed to know what options were out there and what questions to ask – you have all helped me so much.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Squib,

      Thanks for your post and good questions. Yes, my cycle is a pretty typical 28 day cycle, so the days I quoted are relative to that. I hope your appointment with Lesley Regan went well. Please update us on how things are.

      A

  88. jay says:

    really helpful

  89. jay says:

    been ttc for 6yrs but 2013 got pregnant from ivf in February, went into premature labour at 26 weeks, had a boy and a girl, they died at 10 days while in incubation. me and dh are so devastated. i cant wait to get preggy again. pls how do i help to stop d loss depression

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Jay,

      I’m so sorry to hear of the loss of your twins. I can’t imagine the pain and grief, especially after dealing with infertility issues as well. If you haven’t already, I would probably go seek out a grief counselor to help you work through your very understandable feelings of loss and depression. A loss like that isn’t something you ever get over, it’s something you learn to live with and cope with. Are you seeing any doctor at all? You may also want to consider some anti-depressants. All in all I would recommend the help of a doctor and counselor to help you both work through these feelings. I truly hope your next pregnancy brings a sweet baby into your arms.

      A

  90. shruti says:

    after a week of my due period timing..i went for a check.being anxiousi very much wanted a baby..we had tried to conceive from 2 months…then after check..it showed that i have light pregnancy ..but doc put me on folio acid pills and told me to wait…then again after 5 days.same results…light pregnancy..but still doc side to wait for periods…then after 2 days i had periods what..which lasted a little longer then usual…what exactly would have happened…plz help me….i m worried if was it a miscarriage…plz reply soon..eagerly waiting

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Shruti,

      Thank you for your reply and I’m sorry I’m just now replying. Its tough to say what happened. Sometimes spotting and bleeding in early pregnancy can be ok and sometimes its not. It may have been a miscarriage or it could be a subchorionic hematoma. An ultrasound will be the best way to know what happened, or testing your beta HCG levels. I hope that things turned out ok for you.

      A

  91. Sarah D says:

    Hi~
    I feel like we are living parallel lives. I’m just about to experience my fourth chemical in a row. I have a nearly 3 yr old daughter. I had 2 late mcs before her and 1 after… but chemicals in the last 6 months. My dad is also an OB/Gyn and we have been racking our brains. I actually was confirmed after the second mc that I have MTHFR so I take Deplin (L-Methlyfolate) and baby aspirin. For the last 2 pregnancies I have given myself shots of Lovenox in the am and prometrium suppositories at night. I’ve also gone to acupuncture which I absolutely love. BTW, I just turned 39. We had been going through a lot of stress recently with a new promotion for my husband which meant a move out of state away from family and friends. The good news is is that we moved to a beautiful place so all is serene around me. :)
    We have each had our karotype sp? test done and are normal. I’ve had a RPL work up which ws normal too. I did have a hormaone panel which showed high FSH and low estrogen, but that was day 2 after a mc last month. My acupuncturist said that was an unfair cycle to do it on. My NP who specialized in infertility is on vaca this week so she gave me lab slips for if I was prego or not. Since I am, but am about to mc (know from blood test) the nurse is asking the other doctor if I should still follow her plan. She wanted me to get my hormone panel tested again day 3 & 5, then do the clomid test and hormone test again on day 10. I am also supposed to get a HSG around day 10 too.
    My dad said stop the “horsing around” and go straight to a fertility clinician because I’m not getting any younger. (thanks dad! :)) So I have 2 appts next week to check out 2. The good news is that my NO has had me do a lot of tests and they have been covered somehow and we didn’t have to pay out of pocket as we would have at a clinic. She’s awesome. I’ve mentioned your blog to her and she is always open to suggestions which is cool.
    You give me so much hope and I know I will have another baby!! :) You must be due soon with #3? Good luck!!
    S

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Sarah,

      I’m so sorry for all of your losses and yes, it seems like we have traveled very similar journeys. I’m glad to see you have had the full workup of tests..have you checked into the immunology stuff? Natural Killer cells? It might be another avenue to pursue, along with beta 3 integrin. Good to hear you have some open-minded medical professionals on your side…thanks dads! I’m glad I’m giving you hope…6 weeks until my due date, I can’t believe it. But it IS possible. Please keep me posted on your progress!

      A

  92. sammy says:

    i am touched by your story.I feel a lot better after reading it because i am going through the same thing.Well at least you have succeeded once and you easily fall pregnant.I am just the exact opposite.I fall pregnant after a long struggle and i easily lose the pregnancy…i lost 4 in a spce of 2years which is devastating, it left me broken.My husband loves me despite everything and his support, love and patience makes me strong and give me the drive to try, try and try again

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Sammy,

      I’m so sorry to hear about your long journey to both get pregnant and stay that way. Are you under the care of a fertility doctor? Have you had any tests run to see what is causing both your infertility and miscarriage issues?

      A

  93. Sarah D says:

    Hi,
    Are the immunology tests the same as antiphospholipid tests? sp?
    I had those done and there was one that came back border line… I think you wrote about it somewhere in your blog. I’m going to call my NP today and ask her. We are also waiting to hear the results of my husbands semen analysis.
    We have the appointments this week and next with the fertility clinics. I am a bit nervous and confused on what the best course of action is and worried that I haven’t given myself enough time with the acupuncture. She really wanted to get my body back in balance before we try anything. But we’ll see.

    I’d like to order a set of twins, 1 girl and 1 boy. HAhaha! If it were only that easy!

    On another note, while doing your regimen, did you drink coffee at all? Tea? I’m a 1 cup of coffee a day person now, but didn’t drink caffeine at all for 5 years before my daughter was born…

    thank you!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Sarah,

      No, Antiphospholipids are different from the immunology tests. I also had some borderline APA results but my RE at the time said they didn’t really mean anything or would be the cause of my issues. Immunology stuff is Natural Killer cell tests and DQ-Alpha. You usually have to get those run by a specialized lab, such as MILab in Chicago. Here is a link to the NK test and DQ-Alpha.

      If only we could just order it up…well I suppose you could if you were willing to jump into IVF with PGD though obviously there is no guarantee.

      re: caffeine – I’m not a coffee drinker though I go through phases where I drink Dr. Pepper (I know its bad, I’ve quit like 4 times, right now I’m substituting with Chai tea which seems to be satisfying my craving) I think I got pregnant one cycle where I had cut out everything…no alcohol, no caffeine, I was exercising a lot (but not too much), doing acupuncture…trying to do EVERYTHING to make my body PERFECT for pregnancy. Sadly I got pregnant and had another CP and was just wrecked and baffled. Not saying its not worth a try, but I don’t think there is any link to one cup of coffee a day and miscarriage. Now if you were chugging multiple cups a day then it could be worth cutting back, but I wouldn’t really be concerned about 1 cup.

      A

  94. Maria says:

    Hi you

    Please don’t lose faith but also allow yourself time to recover. I’m 15 miscarriages, 1 ectopic and loss of tube but I had one amazing baby and I’m still trying for another. But I knew one day it would happen. And it did. Keep on trying and when you feel lost with it all – come to places like this and realise that there are many of us in the same boat.
    X

    • Nicole says:

      Hi everyone I just wanted to say you all seem like such amazing women and so happy to have come a cross this blog I had a question and wondered if anyone could give me any insight! I am 37 and have 5 children my husband and I have been ttc for over a year and half for one more baby with no success my cycles are very long (i usually start around day 38-42) my last cycle started day 47 (longest yet super dissapointed pet swore i was preg) and unpredictable normally I ov around day 23-31 if I’m ov at all which I don’t think I am consistently I bought the clear blue fert monitor last april and have used it since may in that time Ive only gotten a peak (ov 2 times Once in may and once in nov) my dr gave me clomid but my husbands scared of taking it due to possible twins he’s fine with one but 2 scares him and with having c sec with all my babies twins may not be a good idea anyway so it sits at my pharmacy and alomost a year later still no baby with my pregnancies my hcg levels must b low because hpt never show im preg for 3 plus weeks i think ive gotten preg 2 in last 18 mo maybe more but havent been able to confirm due to this but have had symptoms of preg I guess I’m wondering what kind of tests would you suggest or anything over the counter I can do to possibly help me? I excercise I don’t drink alcohol or smoke etc i guess I’m not sure what to try if anyone has any ideas I’d really appreciate it thanks and baby dust to all! Sorry one more question ive had numerous cycles where I’ve bled for 3-5 weeks some light some reg flow but still consistent any idea what could cause that?

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Hi Nicole,

        I’m sorry for all of your frustration. It sounds like your cycles are a little crazy. Are you charting? That is the best way to figure out if and when you are ovulating. That would be the first thing I would recommend. The book “Taking Charge of Your Fertility” is an excellent primer on charting and will help you figure out when and if you are ovulating. Once you know that you will have more info to go to your doctor with.

        Best of luck!

        A

  95. Annie says:

    … and then there were 3 (applies both to people and miscarriages here…). I’m sorry we are connecting on such a crummy subject. But here’s my story (as I am having my 3rd loss):

    I have a beautiful, healthy, smart as heck 3 year old daughter. Since we started trying for #2, I got a chemical in Feb 2013, an early loss in Sept 2013 (miscarried around 10-11 weeks, but u/s showed no progress was made past 5-6 weeks), and now another chemical (I would be 5w2d).

    Before my very first pregnancy, I was told by an OB that he was 99% sure I had endometriosis and that I wouldn’t be able to conceive without surgery. We proved him wrong (not that I ever went back to see him, but for another set of reasons… some chocking comments he made during our appointment) by getting pregnant within 2 weeks. Fairly uneventful pregnancy, other than having hypertension at 37 weeks with slight growth retardation, and had to be induced. Our troubles started while trying to conceive a second child.

    I already know I have hashimoto’s, but am in the ”subclinical” category for TSH, and can’t seem to get anyone to agree to initiate treatment. A ”specialist” (internist who apparently specializes in endo) I saw referred to what-seems-to-be-archaic guidelines and said ”we don’t treat a TSH below 10”…! So… here I am, still untreated hovering around 4.

    I started charting since the 2nd miscarriage. I conceived on the 3rd full cycle, and my luteal phases the previous 2 cycles were 8 and 9 days. I think it was messed up because of the last miscarriage, because when I look at my calendar months prior to that (I didn’t chart but used LH strips), it seems like my luteal phase was more around 12 days.

    This time around, I was taking low-dose aspirin, figured it can’t hurt, might help. Obviously, that was not sufficient for this pregnancy to go past a chemical.

    My next step is meeting with an OB who specializes in fertility issues. He has helped a friend of mine conceive her second child after 5 miscarriages (her particular protocol was progesterone and low-dose aspirin). I have an appointment with my family doctor next week, I’ll ask for a referral. I have been offered to go to a fertility clinic, however I was also told by some friends with similar issues that they were not very helpful. (I have a sad suspicion that since there isn’t much money to be made with us [through IVF and more costly treatments, since we can conceive easily], they don’t go out of their way to help us… now, I don’t know if it’s true, but it has been the experience of more than one, which makes me wonder…)

    So here I am. Yes it’s a 3rd loss, but I have a plan. I also come with many clues in hand knowing about my thyroid issues and having charted for a few months. We have no issues conceiving, always do within the first 3 cycles.

    Sorry this was long, but I wanted to describe my journey… we are not alone. It is a sad realization that so many of us are struggling that way. I have 3 close friends who have gone (or are currently going) through similar loses. One of them is almost on the same schedule, dealing with her 3rd loss since having her son 3 years ago. Another just got her second child after 5 losses (with progesterone and aspirin), and another friend of mine had 2 children, then 6 loses, and then 2 successful pregnancies without doing anything different (no treatment). We are not alone, and there is hope. I just wish this was more common knowledge and that we wouldn’t have to go through all those loses…

    Hugs!
    – Annie

    p.s. I cannot tell you how lucky I feel to have my daughter, and I know many reading this are having similar struggles trying for their first child. I want to say that while I understand some of the frustrations that come with fertility issues, I can’t pretend that I know how it feels when it’s for your first child and the whole different level of uncertainty that comes with it. Hugs to all of you.

    • Annie says:

      (I meant a ”shocking” comment by that OB)

      We started seeing the fertility specialist, started the tests, so far my SIS is normal… going back at the end of the month for my other results. My BF started taking vit D, selenium, zinc, and folic acid, in case DNA fragmentation plays a role. Really hoping we get answers… 3 of my friends just announced their pregnancies, all due in September, which is when I was due with my last m/c… :-(

  96. Patricia k says:

    I am so glad I found this posting. I just had a CP. I have been having recurring pains ans am wondering if these pains I have been having have been multiple CP’s. We decided to start our family in December of 2008. I went off the pill and got pregnant the first try. He was a very healthy boy! Since the. I haven’t had a period. Was told everything was fine because I BF until 16 months, but when it didn’t come back after 28 months I started to get concerned. Now I am wondering if I have had multiple CPs even with no period. I am going to read up on your research, but thinking that multiple trips to the doctor for bloodworm are going to be in my future.

  97. Aniekie chichi says:

    I have had 3 chemical pregnancies too. always very devastating. leave my faith to God, but havent giving up, cos will keep trying till i win. also thanks 4 ur write up.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Aniekie,

      I’m so sorry for your losses. You have a wonderful attitude…don’t give up hope. It is so difficult but you can do this. Please keep us posted on your progress!

      A

  98. Nicole says:

    I have been experiencing this same thing 3 times now, were you ever able to have another baby? I have a very healthy 4 year old but I continue to have recurrent “chemical pregnancies” they are so heart breaking. I get so excited and a few days later I’m crying in the bathtub over the loss of another one.

  99. Lisa says:

    I have similar issues. I had a copper iud in for 6 years before I got it taken out in 2012. I was so happy I got pregnant immediatly my husband and I were so happy. Then I started spotting at 8 weeks and not feeling as pregnant and getting hot and cold. I didn’t realize what was going on until I had my dr. Appt at 11 weeks. The dr. Did the ultra sound and informed me that our baby had no heartbeat and I was going to have to have a d&c, the baby died 2weeks earlier. After the d&c in April of 2012 I didn’t get pregnant until September of that year by 7 weeks I miscarried and I had a natural miscarriage. Then I found out I was pregnant again in Dec. of that year through a positive pregnancy test, 2 days later I miscarried. Got pregnant again Nov.2013, 2 days later miscarried. Since then I’ve had 3 more miscarriages this year alone. I don’t understand what is going on. Or why I can’t seem to stay pregnant. I’m doing everything right, no strenuous excercise, I’m loosing weight the right way since I’m over weight by 35 lbs. I’ve had 2 ovarian cyts on my ovaries, my right one went away, I still have one on my left. The dr. Says that I’m healthy enough to have a child. I don’t understand. With each child I get pregnant I feel a little piece of me dying inside, it stresses ,me out and is heartbreaking. I hope to continue to follow your story, in hopes at least you can have a happy story to tell. And hopefully I can learn something new perhaps is standing in the way of my fertility.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Lisa, what a horrible roller coaster you are on. I’m so sorry to hear about all of your losses. Are you seeing a specialist or a Reproductie Endocrinologist yet? Sounds like you are getting the standard advice from an OB who is an expert on pregnancy but not on getting pregnant. I hope you found some ideas to pursue here. What testing have they done so far?

      A

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Lisa,
      I’m so sorry to hear about all of your losses. You have been through so much. Have you done the Recurrent pregnancy Loss bloodwork panel? That would be the first thing I would recommend if you haven’t already done it. If you’ve done that with no results, have you seen a specialist (Reproductive Endocrinologist?)

      I hope you found some useful info on the blog…I have had 2 successful pregnancies since I started the blog and detailed the journey to both of those. Please keep us psoted.

      A

  100. Samantha Amey says:

    Can u please keep me updated as I am having the very same problems, I have found out today I am having yet another chemical pregnancy miscarriage and I found this… I’m not sure how old it is but any knowledge would help x
    Thank u

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Samantha,

      I’m so sorry for your losses. Please continue reading the blog. I recently had my third baby boy and detailed the journey to both of my successful pregnancies. If you have more questions please let me know.

      A

  101. It is so eerie how similar your first pregnancy was to mine, and not so much in the actual pregnancy details. My first chemical I was pregnant with my younger sister, took a trip to see parents and then of course the yo-yo betas. I just want to say I love your writing style and your story gives me hope. I have just had a 3rd chemical, no live births yet. I’ve also tried acupuncture etc. Unfortunately, I will not likely have the option of seeing an RE for assistance as I have a congenital heart condition that most doctors don’t want to see me pregnant. If my cardiologist weren’t on board, I’d have had my tubes tied long ago! But thank you for your posts, they inspire me. Blessings on you and your family!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Melissa,

      I’m so sorry to hear about what you have been through. I don’t know much about heart conditions but I truly hope that you can have a healthy pregnancy and a healthy baby.

      (hugs)

      A

  102. Leah says:

    Sorry for your losses
    My heart goes out to you.
    I’m barely coping losing 1 to a chemical pregnancy I cannot imagine what you went through.
    I lost my baby around 6 days ago and it is honestly the hardest thing to come to terms with.
    I feel so helpless and there’s not a thing I could have done.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Oh Leah…I’m so deeply sorry. I remember all of my losses but the first was like someone took out a tiny part of my soul. You are right, there isn’t anything you could have done, which is incredibly difficult to come to terms with. The good news is that the odds are in your favor to have a healthy pregnancy the next time. I was pregnant again 3 weeks after my first loss and that pregnancy brought an amazing boy into my life that is now almost 6 years old! Its so strange when I think sometimes that if my first pregnancy had worked out, I wouldn’t have my son (any of them!) Don’t lose hope….big hugs.

      A

  103. Anna says:

    I am currently in the middle of my 4th chemical pregnancy. I also have an 18 month old who I conceived with no issues on the first try. After my 3rd chemical a couple of months ago, I had the full work up and everything is normal including my lining which measured 13mm. Only thing I am waiting for is the genetics testing which I was told would take a few months.

    My DH and I basically get pregnant every month we try. My body is like clockwork. 32 day cycles. LH surge days 15-16. Ovulation day 17-18. All 4 of my chemical pregnancies end on 16 DPO. My HCG peaks around 16-18 on 14DPO and drops to 7 on Day 16DPO which is also the day the bleeding starts.

    One thing that is off is my progesterone peaks after ovulation to 50 and then starts dropping to around 20 by 14DPO. My dr doesn’t think I have a progesterone issue because 20 is still plenty to sustain a pregnancy at 14DPO especially at the low HCG levels I’ve had. He also thinks that the progesterone keeps dropping because my pregnancy was never viable to begin with.

    Since my doctors can’t find anything wrong, I’ve been encouraged to keep trying and that something should stick. My dr still gets blood tests done each time to see if something changes but so far nothing.

    I’m hoping you can give me some insight seeing as you have done extensive research into recurrent chemical pregnancies.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Anna,

      What a roller coaster you are on, I’m so so sorry. It sounds like you have had some pretty extensive testing done which is good. Have they checked into NK cells at all? It’s a bit of a non-standard test but might be worth looking into. I also wonder if taking an HCG booster shot 7 days after ovulation might help give you a little extra hormonal support. I detailed the protocol that helped me successfully stay pregnant with my second and third sons here. It’s an easy, zero-risk and inexpensive protocol that you might want to discuss with your doctor.

      Please keep us posted and I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms.

      A

  104. Amy says:

    I need some advice. I’m 33 with no babies yet!! I’ve had 3 miscarriage and I’m currently 4 weeks pregnant with an hcg level of 74. Three days ago my hcg level was 54 so the doctor told me today I would be having a miscarriage soon. Please, help any advice would be very helpful really helpful. I’m heartbroken. I feel like if I don’t have a baby soon, I will never have one because of my age.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Amy,

      I’m so sorry to hear about your losses. I understand the hopelessness that you feel. Have you had any bloodwork done yet? The first thing to ask for is the Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel. See if that brings up anything. Are you seeing a RE at all? It might not be a bad idea to go ahead to talk to one since their specialty is helping people get pregnant whereas OBs are better with taking care of you once you are pregnant.

      I hope that helps, please keep us posted!

      A

  105. cheeni says:

    I want to share my experience.. I had irregular periods and i didn’t got it for 3.5 months.. i went to doctor n she suggested me to take meprate tablet but i didnt got any periods even after 16 days.. i went to doctor again and she suggested me a beta hcg test which came 34.. we repeated it after 48 hrs and it rose to 94.. we were so happy that finally we will complete our family… then after 3 days I had a strong pain in left side of abdomen… doctor said that it may b a case of ectopic pregnancy… the same day I started bleeding… my hcg level further went up to 204..but nothng is appearing in scan (may b itz too early to b visible in scan)…. Is getting periods at this stage a sign of miscarriage???? Please suggest…This is my first attemt to concieve.. m highly confused and worried..

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Cheeni,

      If your HCG levels are only 204 then it would be too early to see anything on a scan. You typically won’t see anything until your levels hit 2500. The bleeding could be something or could be nothing, which is hard. I had some bleeding around 4 weeks when I was pregnant with my second son and he was fine. I’ve also had friends who have a lot of bleeding and its been fine, something called a subchorionic hematoma. However, bleeding can also be a bad sign. It’s sort of a wait and see thing. I see you posted this on 5/31 so I hope that the bleeding subsided and your pregnancy is continuing on a healthy path. Please update if you can.

      A

      • cheeni says:

        hiii anna,

        The bleeding resulted in miscarriage…. docs said that it was a biochemical pregnancy and nature has eliminated it…. my hcg levels also dropped to 3 now…. But m happy abt one thing that it wasn’t ectopic pregnancy which the docs were suspecting about… now i will keep a check on my periods and never let it delay to 3 months… Thanks.. :)

      • margo says:

        I just wanted write this as it can help anyone out there. I had a m/c at 11 weeks and d & c. After that I had 2 chemicals. I had weird soreness during ovulation since that procedure. A few months later I’m in the ER. Pain was worse than childbirth. Ended up I had an acute pid attack from the d &c. That may have been the reason for chemicals. They did surgery to clean the area and removed my appendix since they were in there and now we decided to try again. I got a pos preggo test and hcg level was 4. Another chemical or possible tubal issue who knows. But the infection was the reason for me and my troubles.

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Thank you for sharing your story Margo. Any information helps. I hope that your next pregnancy is successful.

  106. iris says:

    I hope everything is well. I had a misscarriage and a chemical pregnancy now im ptegnant again, and im a bit nervous. .this is tragic not to know why this happen..

    • rowanthefrog says:

      I’m so sorry for your loss Iris and I hope your next pregnancy is progressing normally. Please update us.

      A

  107. Gia says:

    Hello,
    I am so thankful to come accross your blog. It helps to know that I am not alone in this thing. many other ladies like yourself have recurrent chemical pregnancies. It devestates us, but we all make it through.

    I just heard today that my hcg did not double and I should expect to miscarriage soon. It will be my 6th miscarriage.

    I had 5 before finally having my angel-princess born. She is now 1.5 years and we have been trying for a few motnhs with fertility boosts like pregnyl, progesterone, baby aspirin etc. Finally got a postive HPT on Sunday. HCG was 155 on Monday and I couldnt help to get excited. I have strong preggo symptoms after all.

    Was devestated when I got the phone all this morning to say that basically it is all over.

    Im thinking: Dear God, I’ve tried my best, but if today I lose my hope, please tell me that Your plans are better then my dreams.

    That is all Im holding on to. I cannot imagine going through another loss. But will keep on trying for baba number 2.

    Good luck to all of you ladies. May we have healthy, normal babies soon. May we be blessed beyond our belief.

    xxx

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Gia,

      I’m so sorry for what you have been through. I understand it all quite well. Have you had bloodwork run yet?

      A

  108. Rachel says:

    Hi, I want to thank you so much for your blog and sharing your story. It gives me hope and helps me feel that I’m not alone. I’m a 28 year old healthy woman and experienced my first chemical pregnancy five months ago. The boyfriend who I had that child with was devastated like I was, and to be honest I find myself identifying as a parent who lost a child even though I was expecting for long and even though it was the first time to my knowledge I’ve been pregnant. Currently, I believe I am pregnant again though it is too early for an at home test and my boyfriend and I broke up a few days after what I believe was conception. I fear I will experience another chemical pregnancy. But your post gives me hope that I will be able to conceive eventually. Thank you for sharing from your heart.

  109. Nicole says:

    Hey A,
    Thanks so much for your blog, it is so informative. I am having my 4th chemical pregnancy. It will be 3 years of TTC this December and I am 38 years old.
    This year my doctor has been Sami David in NYC. I had all the tests and the only thing that I was diagnosed with is low progesterone and elevated NK cells. I take progesterone every cycle at 3dpo and have been doing intralipids infusions as much as possible this entire past year (it’s not cheap!). Well this cycle I was out of the country thus couldn’t do the intralipids. My doctor prescribed prednisone but after reading up on it I decided not to take it. Of course I had a faint bfp at dpo 10 with tons of symptons. It has since become a bfn and I am kicking myself for not doing intralipids after the fact when I got home. All my pregnancies have also been in the summer months which I don’t think is a coincidence (I’m a new-ish teacher so really stressed during the year). At this point, I think we’re ready to move forward with IVF with pgd, as much as I would prefer something non-invasive. I have a new doctor at Columbia all ready to go, and that is what they are recommending. My fear is I’m running out time, and also if I do the IVF I still may just have another chemical. Do you have any advice for me before taking this step? I couldn’t find your age anywhere so it seems you are younger, but I might want to try your protocol with interlipids.
    Would love to hear from you,
    Nicole

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Nicole,

      A good friend of mine with the SAME history as me also had elevated NK cells and ended up doing IVF with PGD and intralipids and got pregnant with her 2nd child. I am currently 36. I was 35 when I had my third child. I don’t think I have any additional advice for you beyond what you are doing. I know the docs like IVF with PGD bc it gives them maximum control and if you have the funds to do it then it sounds like a great option for you. Please keep us posted on your progress.

      A

  110. margo says:

    Thank you so much for this post, I suffered a chemical pregnancy last year and didn’t realize what it was till had the same symptoms this past week. I had all the pregnancy symptoms. Yesterday morning I took a test and had a faint positive. Around lunchtime the cramping started and I realized I was losing it. I’m going to the doctor soon to find out what is going with my body. It was comforting to know I’m not I alone and wish all the women on here the best.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Margo,

      I’m so sorry for your loss and I’m glad you found some comfort here. I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms.

      A

  111. Kimberley says:

    Hi. thank you for your article. I have had 9 miscarriages. the first one I found out about when the ultrasound technician looked at the screen and looked frightened and said something doesn’t look quite right here. She went and got the doctor and he came in and said you are in the middle of a miscarriage you should probably start tonight or tomorrow.which I did.in between then and now I went on to have 8 more miscarriages.
    some have had an empty sac in them some more chemical, and two including the first one I mentioned produced fleshy hole filled remnants when they came out, like a peach pit.the first miscarriage I had started in 1997, when I was 27 and now I am 5 weeks pregnant at 44 years old. the last couple of days I have lost my breast tenderness and the pregnancy test lines are pretty much almost not there now, just a ghost of a line. the soonest my OBGYN would see me is tomorrow. I am very interested to hear anything you find out. thank you for sharing your own personal story. I wish I had the emotional strength and fortitude to tell you a little bit about Who I am and make my experience a little more personal.however, the Lord gets me through this each time, afraid I’ve lost most of the details of my personal experiences.please pray for my hubby and I you get a chance Thanks.
    I prayed for you too. :)
    Kim

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Kimberley,

      I’m so sorry for all of your losses, I can’t imagine the devastation. I hope you had some great news at your appointment, please update us.

      A

  112. Erika says:

    Not sure if your still around…. Just want to say I have had 7 near month to month chemicals and 3 later miscarriages (6-8 weeks) in the last 5 years…..it hurts an it stinks they can’t find the reason why this happens! I could get pg every month but couldn’t carry it…. I am currently five weeks pg am holding my breath!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Hi Erika,

      Yes I am still around and replying when I can though not in the most timely fashion. I hope that your pregnancy is still healthy and continuing, please update us!

      A

    • NG says:

      Hello Erika,
      How is it going with you. I really hope this one sticks. Good luck!

  113. Allison says:

    I read through this blog so many times in the past 2 years and promised myself I would write if I finally had success. I hope it will give someone else hope. I easily got pregnant with my first at age 35. But when trying for a second, nothing for 9 months (possible chemical in there as well), and then back to back chemicals. Due to my age, I then met with a fertility specialist for testing. No problems with anything with me or my husband at all other than a possibly thin lining. 3 IUIs and a fresh IVF cycle later, I had two more chemicals (one with an IUI and one with the fresh chemical). Same exact pattern every time – they always ended around 5 – 5.5 weeks. The specialist chalked it up to my age and bad eggs. But I just felt something was off. After the fresh IVF cycle I met with my regular GP for help with a sinus infection, and she started talking to me about all the fertility stuff. She tested my thyroid and Vit D. The Vit D came back low and I started some supplements. My thyroid came back around a 5, which falls within the “normal” scale (my fertility doc had already checked this before). But my female GP explained that she believes that most women feel better when their thyroid results are closer to a 1 or 2. She feels there should be different “normals” for men and women and said there is current research looking into if these “normal” guidelines should change for women (should be lower). She also said that it’s really especially important for women trying to get pregnant to be closer to a 1 or a 2. Talked to my fertility doctor and he agreed. So I started a very, very low dose synthroid medication, which got me down to about a 1.5. It could be completely psychosomatic, but I really did feel better (less tired, less emotional, less constantly cold – I really didn’t have your typical “thyroid” symptoms – I’m actually quite thin – but I did have the above three; and I think it helped me break my slight depression going through all of this). After a couple months on the Vit D and synthroid, we decided to try a frozen embryo transfer. During that process, my lining was (yet again) very thin. In a last ditch effort, I (who am really not a herbal/supplement kind of person), tried drinking a cup of red raspberry tea every day (read about it on many reviews on Amazon). And during that week only, my lining suddenly shot up better than it’s ever been. Even my doctor was very surprised. With the thicker lining (it still wasn’t stellar, but for me, was pretty good), we went ahead with the transfer, and low and behold! It worked! I’m now 8.5 months pregnant. Was it the Vit D, the thyroid medication, the red raspberry leaf tea, or just pure luck, I really don’t know. Was my problem “old eggs” – maybe. But I had a better response with IVF than most women my age and made quite a few very good embryos, so I question that as being the only problem (though maybe). But if you have multiple chemicals, and have ruled out really any other causes medically, it seems like getting your thyroid down to a 1 or 2 can’t hurt. And if you know you have a thin lining, the red raspberry leaf tea likely can’t hurt to try either. All the best of luck to everyone!

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Allison,

      Thank you so much for updating and CONGRATULATIONS on your healthy pregnancy! Success stories make me smile!!! I greatly appreciate you sharing what helped you. I know people are here looking for answers. Would you be ok if I shared your post as a primary blog post so more people will see it?

      A

  114. NG says:

    Hello,

    It really seems like you’re the only one around with problems until you read what others have to say. Its nothing short of a horror story. I’m so sorry to hear about everyone’s losses but its also comforting to know that I am not alone.

    I am here because I feel confused dazed and completely hopeless. I just turned 27 yesterday and also experienced a chemical pregnancy which i also happened to loose the same day! ‘Happy Birthday to me eh?’ I’ve been married for 7 years and have been actively trying for a baby for 3 years now! The first pregnancy we were ecstatic! It ended at week 7 naturally. It was a blighted ovum. No embryo development they said. My sis in law pregnant at the same time went on to have a beautiful baby boy! i’m happy for her but it just crushed me to pieces.
    The second time I fell pregnant I felt nauseous and we literally celebrated my spontaneous vomit! It felt stronger but once again like the first time my hcg levels weren’t doubling and my gestational sac was empty. This time though my body wasn’t letting go so I had to go through a D and C procedure. I didn’t even wanna think about babies after that.

    After an entire year we thought of giving it a go in February this year. It wouldn’t happen for us! What used to take a few months and some Vitamin E now took us 8 months…and of course to no avail. I took a HPT and it was a faint positive, but it was there. My breasts were sore, I was bloating and felt tired but somehow I was convinced that even this one didn’t feel healthy. I call this one my ‘Weekend Pregnancy’. I tested positive on Friday and Monday morning I started passing clots! ‘Chemical Pregnancy’ was introduced into my vocabulary

    Till now I had no supervision under fertility specialists. People would just tell me it was not the ‘right time’ and it will happen when its ‘meant to be’ and that I shouldn’t even be worrying because ‘time was on my side’. Don’t get me wrong I’m a believer but I know for sure that its high time for investigation. Thanks to this forum I know what to discuss with my Gyn. I am expected to have an appointment in the next week. Cant wait to find answers and get to the bottom of this.

    Good luck to everyone out there. Feels good to vent it all out.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      NG,

      I’m so sorry for your losses and thank you for your comments. I would encourage you to seek the help of a fertility specialist and a Recurrent Pregnancy Loss panel to start. Please keep us posted.

      A

  115. ali says:

    We have been trying for a year now. It will be #5 (and final) for me and #2 for him. We have had three previous chemical pregnancies. They last about two weeks after I test so that puts me about 6-7 weeks each time. We relaxed for two months and last night, I got a very there but very faint positive. It was an inexpensive test and the brand I used the other times. Today, I bought a FRER and it was also light positive. Im so scared to breathe easy. I just want it to stick. I’m going to try walking and cutting caffiene and sleeping this time.

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Ali,

      I’m sorry it has taken me a little while to respond, by now I’m sure you know if your pregnancy is progressing and I hope that it has. Please update us!

      A

  116. Jane says:

    I had chemotherapy in 2008. Prior to that I and never had a miscarriage and had a normal pregnancy in 2003. I had another baby in March 2012. I have had at least 10 chemical pregnancies and one miscarriage at 8 weeks since then. I’ve been seeing a fertility specialist for 2 years. I went to one as soon as I decided I wanted to have another baby because I knew about my depleted ovarian reserve from chemo. However that hasn’t stopped me getting pregnant. Staying pregnant is the problem.

    I’ve had one round of IVF. We grew 3 embryos to 5 day blasts and I had them screened for genetic and chromosomal abnormalities in case that was the problem – 1 of the 3 had trisomy. I just had a FET of a healthy embryo, it still ended in a chemical pregnancy. So it’s not genetic or chromosomal.

    I have the opposite problem, my endometrium lining is too thick, so I had months of ovarian suppression before that embryo transfer to get the lining just right. So it’s not a problem with the lining.

    I only have 1 frozen embryo left so I have to make sure it works this time. They’ve got me doing a natural cycle right now, so they can get the last embryo out of their freezer and get rid of me. My doctor is out of ideas, it’s easier to just handball me to another clinic.

    I don’t have natural killer cells but I took steroids anyway. I’ve been screened for everything, it’s all good.

    My gut feeling is this is an immune issue. When I had chemo I had neutropenia and I had an injection for that (I think it was neupogen, I was pretty sick). I wonder if having neutropenia has had some ongoing effect on my immune system. I had a completely medicated cycle so I had progesterone and hcg supplements. I have elevated rheumatoid factors, but I do have osteoarthritis.

    I’m interested in the protocols for recurring chemical pregnancies so I can try and get my fertility doctor to take them seriously. Do you know if there have been any clinical trials of different protocols or any published research? I’m especially interested in published studies using neupogen. My doctor isn’t going to look at anything unless it is peer reviewed unfortunately.

    I’m 37 so I’m running out of time :(

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Jane,

      Wow…you have been through so much. I’m deeply sorry for all of your losses, on top of everything you went through before that. I wish I had more information to share. I don’t know anything about neutropenia or how it could relate to miscarriage. I spent a lot of time reading abstracts at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ when I was researching my issues. It doesn’t search easily like google but there could be some studies that relate to what you are going through, I don’t know. I will say that if you feel like your current RE isn’t willing to “go down the rabbit hole” with you, so to speak, then find one who is. Sometimes it takes a real detective who is willing to explore all possible options and not just throw a million darts at the dartboard and hope one will hit. From what you are describing I would encourage you to talk to new doctors. Please keep us posted and I hope your next pregnancy brings a baby into your arms.

      A

  117. Amy says:

    So glad to have found this today.

    Currently going through my 4th chemical pregnancy in the last 8 months. Although I’m finding each consecutive one a little easier to deal with, the frustration & need for answers is reaching an all time high!!

    It’s so reassuring to hear that others have experienced the same thing & that many of you have gone on to have successful pregnancies.

    I have a beautiful 20 month old whose smile always brightens these tough days. We never recommenced contraception after my daughter was born as it took us over a year to fall pregnant first time round. I had my first chemical pregnancy in march at 5 weeks, then commenced on clomid due to very irregular cycles. Second course of clomid- pregnant again only to miscarry at 6 weeks. Highest HCG reached was 168. Then went on to IUI due to side effects from Clomid. Second round of IUI- another chemical lasting only 5 days. Decided to put things on hold for a while & just focus on being healthy, but of course, next cycle & here I am again. Severe nausea for the last 3 days, now nothing. HCG this morning of only 125 & I just know where we are headed.

    I’ve had quite extensive testing which of course has all returned “normal” results.

    So frustrated & starting to feel like our gorgeous girl may never the little play buddy we had hoped for.

    It’s very hard to keep trying with the knowledge that the chances of another chemical are so high!! But reading this has given me some hope of success in the future 😊

    • rowanthefrog says:

      Amy,

      I’m so sorry for your losses. I hope you are wrong about your current pregnancy but I also know how you just “know” when something is wrong..and that sucks. I’m glad you found some hope here…if you have questions let me know. Please keep us posted on your progress.

      A

      • Julie says:

        Hi, I don’t see the grape seed extract in your protocol and would like to try it. Can you describe how much you used and any more info? Tia!

      • rowanthefrog says:

        Julie,

        I’m sorry, I never used grapeseed oil so I don’t know what to recommend for that.

        A

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